grizzygriswold

Walk a mile in another avatar's shoes wrap-up.

2009-08-26T04:02:20Z

Tonight was the wrap up for the annual walk a mile in another avatar's shoes event. If you missed the start read about it here. This discussion will make more sense after you read about what everyone did for the week and why.

Thanks again to Lludmila Mirrikh for the pictures

The transcript for the wrap-up discussion is below:

[18:38] Grizzy Griswold: The way tonight is going to work is that first I will share how the week went for me... and then we will on a volunteer basis go around and share.... AND as an incentive to volunteer early after you have told about your week you may change back to normal.
[18:38] Legolas Ceawlin: We get to see everyone change back. YAY
[18:38] CyFishy Traveler: "normal" being a relative term in SL of course. ;)
[18:39] Grizzy Griswold: so if you are really sick of your av.... it would behoove you to go early so I'll share first
[18:39] Cady Enoch: is that why you are going first?
[18:39] Grizzy Griswold: yes, partly. (-:
[18:40] Grizzy Griswold: First of all I find it really hard to relate to myself in this avatar. since it doesn't look like anything with a face or body, I find it hard to think of it as "me". I feel slightly dehumanized and that is not helped by the fact that some people did not realize that I was person...
[18:41] Blodwynna Smalls: probably thought you a sploder or a dance ball
[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: they thought I was part of the background.. a decoration
[18:41] CyFishy Traveler: People kept trying to click on you, did they?
[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: or in about a 1000 cases, yes a dance ball
[18:41] Legolas Ceawlin: you make a lovely dance ball
[18:42] Angelina Expiento: yes, you appear as a dance ball
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: If I went to any club, I kept hearing "Why doesn't this dance ball work?"
[18:42] Legolas Ceawlin: Especially at that place that didn't have one
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: You should attach a chimera.
[18:42] Liska Fuchs: Especially at that club that didn't have a danceball
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: and that is the thing I am most looking forward to not hearing anymore
[18:42] Beginning Thursday: I'll bet!
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh thinks that's hysterical.
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: I also got a lot of "I don't think you've rezzed yet, Grizzy."
[18:42] Legolas Ceawlin: poor grizzy
[18:42] Glorfindel Arrow: all the steam
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Very funny!
[18:43] CyFishy Traveler: Oh, dear.
[18:43] Kiwi Nitely: so i take it, ur not staying an orb, Grizz?
[18:43] Angelina Expiento: how did you decide to be a ball Grizzy?
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: ..and several people asked me what I was supposed to be..and I didn't have a good answer
[18:43] Patapon Monday: an orb
[18:43] Lludmila Mirrikh: A sphere
[18:43] Blodwynna Smalls: A bubble of mountain dew
[18:43] Daedelus Clarity: ur an orb
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: well, Angelina... I had been a whole bunch of different things in SL but I had never been a completely abstract avatar.
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: so I t hought it'd be a new experience
[18:43] Angelina Expiento: and it was, yes?
[18:43] CyFishy Traveler: And indeed it was.
[18:43] Patapon Monday: ok next year some kind of furry, Grizz?
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: this is the only av I've had in SL for this experiment that got huge amounts of attention
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: I can see that
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: I was also told to turn my mist off at one of the clubs we went to
[18:44] Kiwi Nitely: it's pretty hard to miss ; ))
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: the club owner was kind of rude about it. she said I was causing lag
[18:44] CyFishy Traveler: Once people figured out you WERE an avie, you mean?
[18:44] Blodwynna Smalls: OH pshaw
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: da nurve
[18:44] Angelina Expiento: all they have to do is turn off particles
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: but the way she asked was "How would you like it if I came to your place and did that?"
[18:45] Lludmila Mirrikh: That's silly!
[18:45] Blodwynna Smalls: maybe the particles but particles don't cause server lag .. just client lag and they can dial their particles down
[18:45] Legolas Ceawlin: that's my techie love
[18:45] Liska Fuchs: Your ARC is only 400-something
[18:45] Cady Enoch: yeah, sounds kind of rude to me.
[18:45] Legolas Ceawlin: as a human she had a much bigger arc... 3000 I think
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: Yes, I either was completely ignored because people didn't know I was an avie
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: or they would constantly ask what I was supposed to be
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: and one friend at church said she'd have trouble relating to me if I looked like this all the time.
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: I will say the only thing that I really do like it about is the fact that I don't have to worry with furniture. (-: I can just float anywhere
[18:47] Kiwi Nitely: or clothes, grizz
[18:47] Liska Fuchs: Yeah, I'm not sure I'd hang out here as much as I do if the club was run by a bubble
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: I kind of miss my clothes though
[18:47] Legolas Ceawlin: Bubble head. right, Liska
[18:47] Moz Barthelmess: now build some orbs just like your avi, grizzy, and leave them at the places you've been hanging out
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: .... so unless anyone has any questions.. I guess I'm done and the next person can go.
[18:47] Moz Barthelmess: people will spend ages talking to the furniture :)
[18:47] Cady Enoch: you're free, Grizzy!
[18:47] Blodwynna Smalls: Make them have your name and tag as floating text
[18:48] Patapon Monday: so are you going to transform now Grizzy?
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: yes, but you talk while I do that. (-:
[18:48] Patapon Monday: ok
[18:48] Cady Enoch: are you wearing anything under that, Grizzy?
[18:49] Kiwi Nitely: i only know u as an orb!
[18:49] Patapon Monday: Well, for those of you who dont know me I am RL female usually with a female human avatar
[18:49] CyFishy Traveler: So what was it like being a guy for a week?
[18:50] Angelina Expiento: You do make a really cute guy ;)
[18:50] Patapon Monday: even on the first day I was more adventurous. I went off and found some live music performances, never did that before although i wanted to.!
[18:51] Patapon Monday: also plucked courage to ask Glorfindel about sailing and started do that too - also on my To Do List for SL
[18:51] Cady Enoch: that's interesting, Patapon, that you felt that way
[18:51] Patapon Monday: i feel safe wandering around as a man than as a woman
[18:51] Legolas Ceawlin: It's our cultural conditioning
[18:52] Patapon Monday: also felt braver talking to Glor as a guy
[18:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: Undid the sex angle.
[18:52] CyFishy Traveler: Well, that and you're less likely to get hit on by noobs as a guy.
[18:52] Patapon Monday: so i may keep on sailing in male form to be braver about taking risks
[18:52] Caoilin Galthie: it was interesting to hear you patapon doing the service in voice chat on sunday
[18:52] Patapon Monday: I was surprised nobody commented at the time
[18:52] Caoilin Galthie: and it has made me rethink using voice chat as caoilin
[18:53] Legolas Ceawlin: Female voice coming out of male body
[18:53] Daedelus Clarity: sounds interesting, but I think alot of that is in ur mind. Guys do get chickened out.
[18:53] Glorfindel Arrow: I gotta say seems like most of the top sailors are women, now
[18:53] Caoilin Galthie: as far as you know!
[18:53] Patapon Monday: so Caolin how did it look to you, guy leading the service in a womans voice?
[18:53] Angelina Expiento: I tried sailing almost day 1. was really bad at it
[18:54] Daedelus Clarity: no worse than talking koalas
[18:54] Caoilin Galthie: it was just fine!
[18:54] Patapon Monday: yes I also have a Tiny koala
[18:54] Patapon Monday: read the gospel recently
[18:54] Caoilin Galthie: i have been really nervous aobut the idea of using voice chat in sl at the cathedral, so i think you showed me the way patapon
[18:54] Patapon Monday: I think Dae found that strange
[18:54] Caoilin Galthie: really?
[18:54] Patapon Monday: why Caolin?
[18:54] Daedelus Clarity: Pat, I think the stuff u are attributing to men, is actually a part of yourself you haven't acknowledged.
[18:55] Patapon Monday: prolly right dae
[18:55] Daedelus Clarity: Look up Jung some time.
[18:55] Caoilin Galthie: i think we all have masculine and feminine sides to our personalities
[18:55] Legolas Ceawlin: me too Caoilin
[18:55] Caoilin Galthie: so maybe you are letting that come out to play a bit
[18:55] Daedelus Clarity: so the role helped you bring that out.
[18:55] Patapon Monday: so Cao which are you anyway?
[18:55] CyFishy Traveler knows a thing or two about that notion.
[18:55] Caoilin Galthie: i am male in rl
[18:56] Angelina Expiento: we do, but i think some of us are definetly more dominant male or female in rl
[18:56] Patapon Monday: well give it a whirl sometime, we can support you
[18:56] Caoilin Galthie: thanks
[18:56] Caoilin Galthie: so come to the service tommorrow, you MIGHT have a suprise
[18:56] Legolas Ceawlin: I'd like to go next
[18:57] Grizzy Griswold: go ahead Leg
[18:57] Legolas Ceawlin: As most of you know I'm a tiny normally. So I worried how I would be accepted in the tiny community. I felt a need to explain that it was only for a week. Didn't actually get any rejection. I think it was more inside of me. The tinies sort of shrugged and said OK. It was great fun dancing to the biggie dance ball. I think it was Pat who was saying we're a different culture and I was a bit outside it for awhile
[18:59] Kiwi Nitely: wow!
[18:59] Cady Enoch: did you feel disloyal to them?
[18:59] Legolas Ceawlin: Yesh. Among the lilliputians.
[19:00] Liska Fuchs: I've been to Raglan many times, but I've never felt unwelcome 'cause I wasn't a tiny
[19:00] Legolas Ceawlin: True, Liska. So I think it was mostly me.
[19:00] Caoilin Galthie: i guess i never realize that there is a tiny community in sl
[19:00] Legolas Ceawlin: Anyway - loved dancing to the biggie dance ball - that was very freeing
[19:01] Legolas Ceawlin: Cao, there are 1000 folks in the Friends of Raglan group - which is tinies
[19:01] Lludmila Mirrikh: Did anyone try to talk to Woodstock?
[19:01] Patapon Monday: what did you learn?
[19:01] Legolas Ceawlin: Someone asked why I was outlined.
[19:01] Kiwi Nitely: what kind of furry are you normally, lego?
[19:02] Legolas Ceawlin: Some wanted to eat woodstock
[19:02] Legolas Ceawlin: Raccoon, kiwi
[19:02] Kiwi Nitely: are u going back to a raccoon, or staying snoopy?
[19:02] Legolas Ceawlin: What did I learn..... That it's fun to be someone you aren't for awhile, but then it's good to be you again
[19:02] Legolas Ceawlin: Going back
[19:03] Legolas Ceawlin: Next?
[19:03] Angelina Expiento: I'll go
[19:03] Angelina Expiento: Well, I think I told Caoilin, I was kinda going for a look like Papa from the Shack if anyone's read that plus, adding a disability too so, I found that I've grown very fond of Angelina. I feel that my personality still comes thru
[19:04] Legolas Ceawlin: Brave about the disablity
[19:05] Angelina Expiento: but she doesn't really feel like me, but i really enjoy being her
[19:05] Kiwi Nitely: did people ask you what happened to you, why you are in a wheelchair?
[19:05] Caoilin Galthie: how?
[19:05] Angelina Expiento: it has really given me freedom in some ways
[19:05] Angelina Expiento: no, no one asked how the w/c
[19:06] Grizzy Griswold: the only thing I've done in SL that people asked about was the orb
[19:06] Legolas Ceawlin: wow. Did they comment at all?
[19:06] Liska Fuchs: Did people make the assumption that you were in a wheelchair in RL?
[19:06] CyFishy Traveler: It's a given that wheelchairs are voluntary in SL
[19:06] Angelina Expiento: well, i feel freerer in that i don't feel like i'm looked at like a potential partner
[19:06] Patapon Monday: yes
[19:06] Angelina Expiento: you know less um, sex appeal
[19:06] Caoilin Galthie: interesting
[19:06] Angelina Expiento: but that is nice actually
[19:06] Legolas Ceawlin: Ha. Tinies are like that....
[19:06] Caoilin Galthie: i used ot get hit on all the time in welcome areas
[19:06] Legolas Ceawlin: Kinda what Pat felt too...
[19:06] Patapon Monday: true lego
[19:06] Angelina Expiento: yes, that's true Legolas - i feel that as a fox too
[19:07] Caoilin Galthie: even though i say in my profile that i am married
[19:07] Skye Lewellen: yep me too not a whole lot of pick ups
[19:07] Angelina Expiento: so, i think the hardest part was the wheelchair
[19:07] Patapon Monday: yes cao it can be pretty creepy
[19:07] Angelina Expiento: i wanted to dance, but couldn't very gracefully
[19:07] Patapon Monday: no dancing!
[19:07] Angelina Expiento: yes creepy
[19:07] Angelina Expiento: but, i did make 2 new friends, which was really nice. i just knew they were being nice, not for any other reason
[19:08] Patapon Monday: acid test :)
[19:08] Angelina Expiento: one of them i even brought here the other night so, i think i will keep her around, but maybe not all the time or anything but, it funny how fond and even protective i've become of her
[19:09] Legolas Ceawlin: When you are in the mood
[19:09] Angelina Expiento: yes
[19:09] Angelina Expiento: so, i guess that's about it, well except that i did feel kinda like a fraud. i told one new friend it was an experiment, but not the other one
[19:10] Beginning Thursday: I felt about that way when I first incarnated here.
[19:11] Angelina Expiento: so, i think that's all for me
[19:11] Beginning Thursday: To the point that people are surprised to find out that Cy and I are operated by the same individual!
[19:11] Skye Lewellen: I'll go next if that's ok
[19:11] Angelina Expiento: i gotta log out to come back as Hazey
[19:11] Legolas Ceawlin: hb
[19:11] CyFishy Traveler: Running two viewers, and clicking back and forth between them.
[19:12] Ravishal Bentham: It's more common than you think :)
[19:12] Beginning Thursday: I use Snowglobe, Cy uses the Release Candidate viewer with a hack.
[19:13] Liska Fuchs: I know people who run their main av on their desktop, and their alt on their laptop, at the same time
[19:13] Lelani Carver: A friend seems to be split that way - she works as her AV.
[19:16] Lelani Carver: Did anyone do this completely from their inventory, or from freebies?
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: me!
[19:16] Skye Lewellen: all from my inventory
[19:16] Glorfindel Arrow: last year I ws all freebees
[19:16] CyFishy Traveler doesn't really want to think about how much Lindenage got spend on himself and Beginning.
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: I've completely lost track.. who is going now?
[19:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: I thought it was Skye.
[19:17] Lelani Carver: I had a freebie skin but was not happy with the way it looked.
[19:17] Skye Lewellen: I found that this avi brought me a lot of questions like aren't satyr's male?
[19:17] Lelani Carver: Well, where would little satyrs come from?
[19:17] Skye Lewellen: aren't they always horny or are you from narnia
[19:18] Grizzy Griswold: I must admit my satyr knowledge is pretty lacking
[19:18] Skye Lewellen: mostly i was ignored unless someone had an avatar or history question. i definitely lost all sex appeal which was kinda nice actually. i can't wait to get back to skye
[19:19] Grizzy Griswold: I would be kind of disturbed if you still had sex appeal like that
[19:19] Skye Lewellen: i miss pants and shoes and dresses
[19:19] Ravishal Bentham: She has appeal from the waist up :)
[19:19] Grizzy Griswold: I missed eyes and noses and mouths
[19:19] Skye Lewellen: lol Grizz i'm sure there's somewhere in sl they'd like this look
[19:19] Skye Lewellen: aww thank rav :)
[19:20] Skye Lewellen: that's about it.. oh and i can't build furniture or set poeballs with this av.. very irritating
[19:21] Kiwi Nitely: is that your normal face?
[19:21] Skye Lewellen: me? no
[19:21] Skye Lewellen: regular skin tho
[19:21] Skye Lewellen: i did change to horse eyes
[19:22] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hmmm, can one "make horse eyes" at someone else?
[19:22] Skye Lewellen: i learned that a known character is seen as just another option in sl and there's very little curiostiy
[19:23] Hazey Bigbear: so, can I ask you guys how did you all feel seeing me now, not having known me before angelina?

[19:24] Lludmila Mirrikh: Amazed.
[19:24] Kiwi Nitely: you look pretty hazey
[19:24] Beginning Thursday: It's quite the contrast.
[19:25] Hazey Bigbear: that's why i love angelina
[[19:25] Lludmila Mirrikh: Thanks for being so brave!
[19:25] Beginning Thursday understands completely.
[19:26] CyFishy Traveler: I'll be glad to go next and then Beginning.
[19:26] Grizzy Griswold: go ahead CyFishy
[19:26] CyFishy Traveler: Neither of us were treated any differently in our different avies but it took a bit of adjustment to see this avatar as 'me.
[19:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: It's pretty realistic.
[19:27] CyFishy Traveler: It was about what I went through when I first shifted to male.
[19:28] CyFishy Traveler: Yeah--I think that may be the other part of it.
[19:28] Caoilin Galthie: how do you usually look?
[19:28] Kiwi Nitely: are u female, cy?
[19:28] Skye Lewellen: that's an awesome skin cy
[19:28] Hazey Bigbear: it is
[19:28] CyFishy Traveler: Neither my male nor my female shape are particularly photorealistic.
[19:28] Lelani Carver: That's a very sharp looking suit too, Cy.
[19:28] CyFishy Traveler: I'm female in RL, for what it's worth. As I mentioned around the start of the evening, I felt more 'myself' when I put my glasses back on. The skin and shape I got at Chip Midnight's shop.
[19:30] Skye Lewellen: very nice stuff! my male alt needs work
[19:30] Lelani Carver: Ah. I didn't find many shops that had the look I was after.
[19:30] CyFishy Traveler: By the end of the week, I got a little more used to us.
[19:30] Hazey Bigbear: Do you usually have a female AV?
[19:30] Kiwi Nitely: which one did u like the best, cy?
[19:30] CyFishy Traveler: I might make use of this avie in a roleplay scenario.
[19:31] CyFishy Traveler: Hazey--I go back and forth between male and female, depending on my mood.
[19:32] Beginning Thursday: I found being a clockwork girl was also harder than I'd expected!
[19:32] Lludmila Mirrikh: All that winding?
[19:32] Beginning Thursday: I like being able to change my hair around on a moment's notice and slip on a different skin or outfit.
[19:32] Skye Lewellen: it's a cool av but it looks kinda limited
[19:32] Beginning Thursday: Exactly!
[19:33] Beginning Thursday: Plus, I switched off my AO, since it seemed the easiest way to walk like an automaton.
[19:33] Hazey Bigbear: can you change clothes?
[19:33] Beginning Thursday: I could have changed clothes, but they would have looked odd on the body I'd chosen. I threw together this dress to wear for the duration, so I wouldn't get in trouble for wandering around naked! So it was fun, and I may do it again sometimes.
[19:34] Skye Lewellen: a paper wrapper would be cool
[19:34] Beginning Thursday: But not for an entire week!
[19:34] Grizzy Griswold: I'm not being an orb again!
[19:35] CyFishy Traveler: Who's next?
[19:35] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'll go.
[19:35] Daedelus Clarity: I thought for a mathematically simple object, you had alot of personality.
[19:35] Lludmila Mirrikh: My experience wasn't much different from Beginning's I had the devil of a time just getting an outfit together. Then I was stuck with it.
[19:36] Skye Lewellen: you know next year maybe we can help each other with outfits
[19:36] Lludmila Mirrikh: I was away most of the week, but did my usual stuff when I got back: hunts. The only thing I noticed (other than being annoyed I couldn't change) was that ... no one talked to me. This hardly ever happens on a hunt.
[19:37] Hazey Bigbear: what is a hunt?
[19:37] Kiwi Nitely: u r a crossdresser. or a transvestite?
[19:37] Cady Enoch: like a scavenger hunt, Hazey
[19:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: Someone usually says (transvestite, Kiwi) something about the hunt or where something is.
[19:38] Skye Lewellen: i think you are doing something no one in sl does
[19:38] Lelani Carver: Yes.. you see the same people a few times, you get friendly faster.
[19:38] Kiwi Nitely: yes, i havent seen any
[19:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: I had that one odd conversation in the beginning with the guy who was in my house when I rezzed, and that was it.
[19:38] CyFishy Traveler: Bloke in a dress? Bone Mosten's done it a few times, according to his blog.
[19:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: And I put on a feminine AO - which I don't even wear as a female.
[19:38] Kiwi Nitely: only at a costume party
[19:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: I think they're creepy.
[19:39] Skye Lewellen: i've seen the guy in the dress but somehow llud's different
[19:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I didn't really want to wear a dress for some reason. It didn't fit right.
[19:39] Lelani Carver laughs remembering a man in a bikini and a whole lot of 7Seas fish
[19:39] Hazey Bigbear: are you a male in RL Lludmila?
[19:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: And I liked it too much to mess with it.
[19:39] Skye Lewellen: llud's mixing more than most
[19:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: No, I'm female.
[19:40] Hazey Bigbear: ah, well, that is mixing it up then
[19:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: These boots were the only thing that fit the feet. But they're hot, aren't they?
[19:40] Cady Enoch: like Victor Victoria ;)
[19:40] Skye Lewellen: they're perfect lol
[19:40] Hazey Bigbear: Julie Andrews
[19:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: I did that in RL once -
[19:40] Hazey Bigbear: I knew that was a movie!
[19:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: Went as a female impersonator.
[19:40] Lelani Carver: Hee! this is the part where you pull off your wig and everybody gasps.
[19:40] Hazey Bigbear: hard to wrap the brain around
[19:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: I love messing with people.
[19:41] Hazey Bigbear: female playing male playing female or something like that
[19:41] Glorfindel Arrow: did your Humanisitas have anything to say??
[19:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: I wasnt' around for that. I doubt they'd say more than "Nice boots, Llud!"
[19:44] Grizzy Griswold: who would like to go next?
[19:44] Caoilin Galthie: i will
[19:44] Caoilin Galthie: unfortunately i did not get to participate much this past week but i did have an interesting experience. cady and i have been talking about my uisng a male avatar to lead the wed evening service at the cathedral so i created one, and logged it to try it out and went to a place that i oftentimes go, and am known as caoilin. well, while i was there, none talked to me! or said hello or initiated conversation, even though i appeared to be new to sl
[19:46] Skye Lewellen: yep standard reaction to *male
[19:46] Caoilin Galthie: i finally did join the conversation and that went fine
[19:46] Skye Lewellen: my male av gets ignored unless a g/f wants a dance partner
[19:47] Caoilin Galthie: but it gave me new insight into what it is like to be new in sl and not really sure abut it but also, this time as a newbie male instead of a newbie female so that probably made a difference too
[19:48] Hazey Bigbear: how did you feel as a guy cao?
[19:48] Caoilin Galthie: strange
[19:48] Hazey Bigbear: in what way?
[19:48] Kiwi Nitely: you have always been a girl on sl?
[19:48] Caoilin Galthie: i think i have come to identify as cao in sl, so it felt strange to be someone different in sl
[19:48] Cady Enoch: I do think people may be more leery of male strangers in SL
[19:49] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, I've always been a woman in SL and so being a male in SL would seem weird to me too despite the fact that I am male irl
[19:49] Caoilin Galthie: and here is something else
[19:51] Grizzy Griswold: Glor hasn't gone yet
[19:51] Glorfindel Arrow: oh ok
[19:51] Glorfindel Arrow: I felt pretty silly for a few days as a furry
[19:52] Hazey Bigbear: glor you are a guy?
[19:52] Glorfindel Arrow: people I knew would ask what's up, and I told them it was international change your av week....lolll
[19:52] Hazey Bigbear: i assumed you were a girl. i don't know why. maybe cause you look so cute and cuddly
[19:52] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, that was the other thing, being cute and cuddley. I went to a few places to see if I would get a reaction and nobody was there, lolol i went to a big meeting of the sailing community, I was the only furry there, but everyone was interested in the meeting
[19:54] Kiwi Nitely: how could they not comment on you, Glor?
[19:54] Glorfindel Arrow: not many furries sailing, dunno why
[19:55] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, so even tho i did a litle better in the races I think i will be glad to change back
[19:55] Kiwi Nitely: so did u sail, like that, Glor?
[19:55] Glorfindel Arrow: 100 prims less than 'Owen Wilson'lol
[19:55] CyFishy Traveler: I guess you were your own lucky rabbit's foot.
[19:56] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, it was about the same as normal
[19:56] Lludmila Mirrikh: You didn't stop to nap in the middle of a race?
[19:56] Glorfindel Arrow: except my feet didn't touch the deck on some of the boats heheheh
[19:57] Glorfindel Arrow: heheh, i do lose concentration sometimes
[19:59] Glorfindel Arrow: so what did I learn, any change makes you look at things a little differently I guess, but things go on about the same
[19:59] Skye Lewellen: it'll be good to have you back Glor
[20:00] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, I miss our Owen Wilson lookalike

Walk a mile in another avatar's shoes night 1

2009-08-19T12:01:03Z

Last night was the first night in the annual "Walk a mile in another avatar's shoes" social experiment. Below is a transcript of the first event. Thanks to Lludmila Mirrikh for the accompanying pictures.

Pictured below is my avatar for the week:

[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: So the way this is going to work is first we will go around and tell why we chose what we chose and how we feel so far and what we expect. I'll start and then we can go on a volunteer basis. I picked this because this and a furry is about the only thing I haven't been yet in SL and this seemed more interesting since furries are fairly commonplace
[18:43] CyFishy Traveler: Furry will be next year, then? ;)
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: probably.
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: and before I came here tonight I went to another club where I am not known and I felt kind of ignored.
[18:43] Lludmila Mirrikh: :(
[18:43] Patapon Monday: I'll bet
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: I don't know if it was because the place was cliqueish
[18:43] Legolas Ceawlin: They prolly thought you were a dance ball
[18:43] Glorfindel Arrow: prolly thought you were the dance ball hehehe
[18:43] Industria Dowler: That's what I said, rofl.
[18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: They should at least have clicked on you.
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: or because it just doesn't register with people that I am in fact a sentient being.
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: right
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: and if this is going to be a week of me being overlooked its gonna be kind of tough
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: Just like Lt Commander Data
[18:44] Patapon Monday: hmmm
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: dat tru
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: ..and I do kind of feel like I have lost a sense of personhood or identity.
[18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, we won't ignore you. Much.
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: but at the same time I think this avatar looks pretty cool.
[18:44] Legolas Ceawlin: very cool
[18:45] Legolas Ceawlin: Gutsy
[18:45] Patapon Monday: yes but how do you dance or skate?
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: I won't.
[18:45] Legolas Ceawlin: aaaaaah
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: its hard to dance or skate when you have no arms or legs
[18:45] Legolas Ceawlin: empathy for quadroplegics
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: It does make SL a little simpler though. I don't have to worry about sitting or anything like that
[18:45] Lludmila Mirrikh: Will you change colors?
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: I'm thinking about it
[18:46] Legolas Ceawlin: Mood orb
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: just so it doesn't get boring
[18:46] Patapon Monday: solves the wardrobe dilemmas
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: so that's pretty much me.... who wants to go next?
[18:46] Legolas Ceawlin: Don't have to plan what to wear. I'll go
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: that is true.. that will save me time, Leg. (-:
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: cool go ahead
[18:46] Legolas Ceawlin: I've always loved Snoopy. He's got a saucy loving life attitude and my favorite quote - If you can't dance at least do a happy hop and somehow I already had this avatar in my inventory So. I've just now put it on. Don't know how it will be received by tinies. I'll be bigger than they are

[18:48] Industria Dowler: Maybe they will call you a poser, hehe!
[18:48] Legolas Ceawlin: But still whimsical but I love the reaction from you folks
[18:48] Patapon Monday: It's a very interesting av
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: I know personally when I've been an av that is already an established character that people are familiar with..
[18:48] Legolas Ceawlin: And I looked great doing a biggie dance
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: it feels like wearing a costume
[18:48] Lludmila Mirrikh: A Snoopy av was one of the first ones that spoke to me when I was first in SL.
[18:48] Patapon Monday: we have to see Snoopy dancing
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: while if its an av that isn't supposed to be a specific character I can kind of make it me
[18:49] Legolas Ceawlin: Good point Grizzy
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: that might be another possibility for me next year
[18:49] Legolas Ceawlin: Like I'll maybe be acting a role all week
[18:49] Industria Dowler: I've met two people who pulled it off as their own since they always wore it.
[18:50] Legolas Ceawlin: You can prolly infuse it with your own personality a bit
[18:50] Legolas Ceawlin: So who wants to go next?
[18:50] Industria Dowler: I can. I picked an ant because Grizzy thinks it's ugly, lol. Well partially.

[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: I'm not real crazy about bugs and insects
[18:50] Industria Dowler: Most avatars don't have more than four legs in SL so I upped the ante. (No pun, honest.)
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: My first instinct is to smash them.
[18:51] Legolas Ceawlin: Is that why you're floating so high above her?
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: nah, floating just seems like the thing to do in this avatar.. I'm not sure why
[18:51] Legolas Ceawlin: It does indeed
[18:51] Industria Dowler: I figure most people hate bugs so I might get some interesting reactions.
[18:51] Patapon Monday: yes you will!
[18:51] Legolas Ceawlin: outrageous!
[18:51] Cady Enoch: you are n dance ball mode, Grizzy ;)
[18:51] Industria Dowler: Ants are actually my favorite insect, haha!
[18:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: You'd think they'd be able to deal with a virtual ant.
[18:52] Cady Enoch: they are very industrious!
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: Not mine because they keep invading my kitchen
[18:52] Patapon Monday: but you do look scary
[18:52] Patapon Monday: look at those mandibles
[18:52] Industria Dowler: I think they could but they might be creeped out...not unlike Griz. :)
[18:52] Legolas Ceawlin: Those jaws...
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: and I keep having to poison the little bastards to keep them out of my cat's food
[18:52] Cady Enoch: and can carry many times their own weight
[18:52] CyFishy Traveler: looks a bit like an extra from THEM
[18:52] Patapon Monday: oooh not in present company
[18:52] Legolas Ceawlin: Lotsa good qualities
[18:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: Good movie.
[18:52] Industria Dowler: Yeah. :)
[18:53] Grizzy Griswold: Anyone seen that old episode of the Outer Limits? She reminds me of that
[18:53] Industria Dowler: I probably have.
[18:53] Grizzy Griswold: http://www.billoney.com/Billoney/Billoney.com/Entries/2009/1/11_Zanti_Misfits_files/shapeimage_1.jpg
[18:53] Grizzy Griswold: well, if Indy is done, who would like to go next?
[18:53] Glorfindel Arrow: me
[18:53] Industria Dowler: I'm much cuter than that, Griz.
[18:54] Glorfindel Arrow: I feel kinda silly so far, like a Macy's parade balloon. look at the hands and feet

[18:54] Lludmila Mirrikh: hee
[18:54] Legolas Ceawlin: You look cute!
[18:55] Patapon Monday: looks fun tho
[18:55] Glorfindel Arrow: but I wanted somthing that could sit in a boat, which elimnates bugs and a lot of robots
[18:55] Industria Dowler: You are pretty damn adorable.
[18:55] Grizzy Griswold: dance balls can't sit in boats
[18:55] Glorfindel Arrow: and a bunny dosen't have a brush tail which would get in my way
[18:55] Lludmila Mirrikh: Is it true what they say about rabbits?
[18:55] Glorfindel Arrow: I don't feel like procreating much if that's what you mean heheheheh
[18:56] Legolas Ceawlin: Do you have a little powder puff tail?
[18:56] Cady Enoch: you are more like a baby bunny with the big hands and feet, really
[18:56] Cady Enoch: very cute!
[18:56] Legolas Ceawlin: That means you're gonna be really big!
[18:56] Lludmila Mirrikh: A cuddle bunny.
[18:56] Industria Dowler: Giant bunny of doom!
[18:56] Glorfindel Arrow: I got one comment so far, at the yacht club, someone I didn't know said, oh a Furry sailing....
[18:57] Lludmila Mirrikh: How did that make you feel?
[18:57] Glorfindel Arrow: so I told her it was change your avatar week
[18:57] Industria Dowler: Is that never seen at that yacht club?
[18:57] Glorfindel Arrow: not many Furrys sail
[18:57] Patapon Monday: we'll have to fix that!
[18:57] Legolas Ceawlin: afraid of water??
[18:57] Industria Dowler: I wonder if it's because they don't like to get their fur wet or snobbies, lol.
[18:57] Glorfindel Arrow: but this Av is about 100 prims less than my normal one so should be good
[18:57] Cady Enoch: don't like the smell of damp fur
[18:57] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, never say "bath" to them.
[18:58] Industria Dowler: Must have been all that lustrous blond hair.
[18:58] Legolas Ceawlin: I love the way your ears twitch
[18:58] Glorfindel Arrow: oh, am I supposed to wear pants??? some came with the Av but I didn't like them
[18:58] Industria Dowler: I don't think you have to since you don't have, um, genitals.
[18:58] Cady Enoch: up to you, I suppose
[18:58] Industria Dowler: Do you?
[18:59] CyFishy Traveler: Bugs Bunny didn't wear pants.
[18:59] Industria Dowler zooms in.
[18:59] Grizzy Griswold: I'm not wearing any clothes at all
[18:59] Cady Enoch: furries usually wear clothes, though.
[18:59] Industria Dowler perv cams Glor.
[18:59] Legolas Ceawlin: Folks with fur aren't nekkid
[18:59] Industria Dowler: Nope, nothing there.
[18:59] Lludmila Mirrikh covers eyes
[18:59] Industria Dowler: You're good. LMAO
[18:59] Beginning Thursday: I thought about going naked, but felt I should at least put on something.
[18:59] Glorfindel Arrow: well the sailing community didn't say anything so well see how it goes
[19:00] Grizzy Griswold: ok, I guess its Llud's turn.
[19:00] Kelvin Glimmer: I kept scanning looking for grizz....then I checked the third dimension
[19:00] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I joked last night about being a transvestite.

[19:00] Legolas Ceawlin: YOu're lovely Llud!
[19:00] Lludmila Mirrikh: Then when I logged on at my house, I found a man in my bedroom. Apparently, they've put a newbie location in a sky platform right above my house. Anyway, we started chatting. It was going fine until we discussed avatars. We both originally tried to create avs that looked like our RL selves. And gave up. And then he quickly said goodbye. Then I said that I decided to go for making my av look like my "inner self." Y'all might remember my outfit last night. So, I've already had an interaction. I went shopping today like this and felt a little nervous.
[19:03] Industria Dowler: So is that really your inner self or were you being funny?
[19:03] Lludmila Mirrikh: But no one else has said anything. I meant the zombie as inner self ... but he didn't stick around long enough to hear my explanation.
[19:04] Cady Enoch: newbies can be skittish!
[19:04] Lludmila Mirrikh: He wasn't all that new.
[19:04] Legolas Ceawlin: Don't know what they are getting into here
[19:04] Industria Dowler: Well, oldbies can be skittish then. XD
[19:05] Lludmila Mirrikh: And he WAS in my bedroom.
[19:05] Industria Dowler: Haha, he was just asking for it.
[19:05] Legolas Ceawlin: Now I get what you meant
[19:05] Cady Enoch: so he hardly had room to be weirded out
[19:05] Lludmila Mirrikh: I didn't want to say this wasn't normally me.
[19:05] Grizzy Griswold: ok, who wants to go next?
[19:06] Patapon Monday: I will if you like
[19:06] Industria Dowler: You mean Llud...it's the hair, isn't it? XD
[19:06] Legolas Ceawlin: Chest hair
[19:06] Grizzy Griswold: ok, Patapon.. go ahead. (-:
[19:06] Lludmila Mirrikh preens her chest hair. Ummm, HIS chest hair.
[19:07] Legolas Ceawlin: lol
[19:07] Patapon Monday: I think Joyous and I went a similar path here. I looked at the gamer guy she is wearing and couldn't face it! So this is the next thing... not an av I wd normally use reminiscent of my son actually except I cant play guitar

[19:08] Legolas Ceawlin: But at least you've got one
[19:08] Legolas Ceawlin: Great look!
[19:08] Patapon Monday: maybe too handsome?
[19:09] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, that's pretty cool... I've found changing gender to be the most interesting thing you can do with avatars...
[19:09] Patapon Monday: anyway i look forward to dancing with some of the ladies ;)
[19:09] Grizzy Griswold: For those who don't know... I'm male irl.
[19:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: Darn! I've just euchred my way out of a dance!
[19:10] Patapon Monday: I was thinking of dancing with Grizzy but it isnt going to wrk ;)
[19:10] Grizzy Griswold: who would like to talk next?
[19:10] CyFishy Traveler: I can go . . .and then Beginning. This is the first time I've actually participated in Grizzy's avatar experiment officially. But my first cross of the gender line came because I'd heard about it and thought it was interesting. And now I can't stick to one gender anymore!

[19:11] Lludmila Mirrikh: Nor I, CyFishy.
[19:12] CyFishy Traveler: So I decided to take on a different skin this time.
[19:12] Kiwi Nitely: oooh grizzy, ur an orb! cool
[19:12] CyFishy Traveler: From Gothboy to Black Dude.
[19:12] Grizzy Griswold: thanks Kiwi I am normally a curvy redhead
[19:12] Cady Enoch: you look very dashing, CyFishy
[19:12] Angelina Expiento: oh wow - i was wondering where Grizzy's voice was coming from!
[19:12] Cady Enoch: well, you are still curvy ;)
[19:13] CyFishy Traveler: I"m vaguely intimidated by myself . . . ;)
[19:14] CyFishy Traveler: I don't plan on acting any differently, but we'll see. I gave Beginning the Lindens to become a clockwork girl.

[19:15] Beginning Thursday: I saw the skin and the clockwork brain at Curio Obscura and just couldn't resist.
[19:15] Cady Enoch: it is very cool!
[19:15] Angelina Expiento: Is there anything special we need to know to do the experiment?
[19:15] Kiwi Nitely: it looks amazing beginning
[19:15] Angelina Expiento: and how long do we do this for?
[19:15] Industria Dowler: It's very unique. You don't see that very often.
[19:16] Beginning Thursday: Thank you.
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: Angelina... just that we are planning to be this for an entire week fulltime
[19:16] Kiwi Nitely: or a giant ant!
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: and also that this time on thursday we will be getting together to wander around in world as our new selves and then the wrap up where we discuss the experience is a week from tonight
[19:16] Angelina Expiento: ok, we meet back here next Thursday?
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: this coming Thursday
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: and then a week from tonight
[19:17] Angelina Expiento: oh ok, this thursday time?
[19:17] Grizzy Griswold: yeah this will end exactly a week from tonight
[19:17] Angelina Expiento: how many times have you done this Grizzy?
[19:18] Grizzy Griswold: this is the third year. I am making it an annual thing as long as people continue to be interested
to go next?
[19:21] Angelina Expiento: well, i'll go, but i missed most of everyone else
[19:22] Angelina Expiento: ok, well, i wanted to see how it felt to be someone different. for me, i chose to be an african-american woman older, overweight, and disabled. thought I would do that and see how it felt. that's why i was so late, i was looking for a wheelchair

[19:23] Grizzy Griswold: that's more than I think I could take on all at once.
[19:27] Grizzy Griswold: and now Joyous can go next.
[19:27] Joyous Schism: I'd forgotten this was tonight, so I just picked this out of what I have. I sort of thought I'd do my usual gargoyle but I decided I'd rather be a guy and a not very, um, attractive one. You may note that I already switched since I got here. I kind of like the name Joyous with this sad face

[19:30] Cady Enoch: kind of ironic ;)
[19:30] Angelina Expiento: what is ironic Cady?
[19:30] Cady Enoch: Joyous with a sad face
[19:36] Joyous Schism: I'm thinking that what I should be doing is making an av that is more like my real self and see how my real self gets treated in sl
[19:36] Angelina Expiento: is your usual one that different from you joyous?
[19:36] Industria Dowler: That would be interesting if you haven't experienced that.
[19:37] Skye Lewellen runs and hides her real self.. she already knows how she gets treated in RL! not sl too!
[19:37] Gumbercules Warf: I couldn't tolerate an av that looks like me
[19:37] CyFishy Traveler: My female body actually lookes quite a bit like me, I've been told.
[19:37] CyFishy Traveler: (Bit paler, though.)
[19:37] Industria Dowler: I thought one of yours sort of looked like you, Gum.
[19:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: It would be hard to relate to you, Gumber.
[19:38] Gumbercules Warf: well, I got fatter. That's what would bother me the most :P
[19:38] Grizzy Griswold: I had an av that looks like me in rl... I didn't mind it but I found it boring to look just like I do in rl iin a world where I can turn into almost anything
[19:38] Angelina Expiento: i tried to be as fat as possible with the sliders
[19:38] Joyous Schism: so true
[19:38] CyFishy Traveler: That's my thinking as well.
[19:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: The sliders don't do fat well. I tried that earlier.
[19:38] Grizzy Griswold: that's why I'm never male in SL... too close to RL
[19:38] CyFishy Traveler: If I want to look like me, I've got a mirror for that.
[19:39] Grizzy Griswold: seems like wasted experience to be the same thing as what I am in RL.
[19:39] Joyous Schism: and I've got rl for that
[19:39] Grizzy Griswold: We still have Cady and Skye.
[19:40] Cady Enoch: well, I'm really just observing. actually....
[19:40] Grizzy Griswold: oh, from your blog yesterday I thought you were goign to do the neko for this
[19:40] Cady Enoch: I got the neko getup for this experiment, but.... I've really taken to it, so I'm planning to stay this way ;)

[19:44] Grizzy Griswold: Skye would you like to go now? oh and Gumby needs to go too whichever one of you wants to go next.. go
[19:46] Gumbercules Warf: I just picked something I had in my inventory that I liked

[19:46] Skye Lewellen: i picked a satyr because i had it and it's not normal me

[19:47] Skye Lewellen: actually this is already a pain in the tuchas
[19:47] Industria Dowler: Not used to sitting on a tail? Hehe!
[19:47] Angelina Expiento: I was a centaur once - it was different too
[19:47] Skye Lewellen: i'm rebuilding marante ballroom and i have to keep changing avs to get furniture built right
[19:48] Industria Dowler: I was going to ask if the hooves were messing up the hard wood floors.
[19:48] Skye Lewellen: everything i sit on or set up is all wonky
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold: the next order of business is Thursday night. I encourage everyone to go to places where people don't know them on their own.... but on Thursday there will be no event here at the club. Instead at 6:30, the usual event time we will all agree upon showing up at some other event in SL. Possibly attending 2 or 3 different events together as these avs.
[19:51] Industria Dowler: The same one or the event of our choices?
[19:51] Grizzy Griswold: and what I suggest we do is bring up the Thursday calendar and pick some events. and when I send out the group announcement I will send a lm to the first one instead of to Grizzy's and we won't even come here on Thursday
[19:52] Patapon Monday: if we are late how do we catch up?
[19:53] Grizzy Griswold: I will send out a group IM everytime we change location. I'm thinking about maybe this one for a good start: http://secondlife.com/events/event.php?id=3018116&date=1250816400
[19:56] Caoilin Galthie: cool, i didnt realize that grizzy had a dance ball up here
[19:56] Skye Lewellen: hahahaha
[19:56] Cady Enoch: that's Grizzy! LOL
[19:56] Grizzy Griswold: the trivia would make it something where we could interactwith other people too.
[19:56] Angelina Expiento: yes good idea!
[19:57] Grizzy Griswold: and I've been to that place and its pretty crowded so I think that would be a good choice for the first one.
[19:57] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, a concert or somthing like that we would have to be quiet....lol
[19:57] Patapon Monday: is it still going to be going at 6:30 pm?
[19:57] CyFishy Traveler: Sounds good.
[19:57] Grizzy Griswold: yeah
[19:57] Grizzy Griswold: 6:30
[19:58] Grizzy Griswold: but if I get on earlier than that I might get there earlier
[19:58] Beginning Thursday: We can drift in at intervals . . . that way it won't be too odd.
[19:58] Industria Dowler: Haha, a band of misfits lands at the same time.
[19:59] Beginning Thursday: People might wonder what's up if a large crowd all shows up at once.
[20:01] Grizzy Griswold: ..and then maybe we could move on to this event..... I'm thinking it sounds like it may attract a different group of people: http://secondlife.com/events/event.php?id=3035453&date=1250816400 and it has no dress theme
[20:05] Grizzy Griswold: How about this for event number 3? http://secondlife.com/events/event.php?id=3033215&date=1250820000 I'll tp to them before I log off so I'll have landmarks.
[20:07] Cady Enoch: works for me
[20:07] Angelina Expiento: sounds like fun!

Discussion: Responsible Use of a virtual world

2009-05-21T02:49:07Z

Tonight at Grizzy's Cafe, we had a discussion about responsible behavior in a virtual world. I have saved a transcript. I have edited out extraneous comings and goings.

[17:03] Grizzy Griswold: Well, I guess I'll open things up by saying what made me think of having a discussion on this topic was the fact that Linden Lab recently decided to open up a red light continent where all of the sexual activity would be moved to and while I'm not a fan of censorship except in extreme cases (I'm glad that sexual ageplay is gone) I personally think that this is probably a step in the right direction because SL is often mischaracterized as being only about sex because that is what outsiders see it as. While I think people should be free to do what they want here for the most part I think that like in rl things need to have a proper place. I think for SL to be taken seriously as a world there has to be some standard of public behavior beyond what we have. In RL there is a distinction between the public and private... and you wouldn't see people practicing BDSM when you go shopping for clothes and I guess I personally feel that while people should be able to do what they want with their SL it shouldn't infringe upon others. I have more thoughts on this, but I'll open it up for other people to comment.
[17:08] Sean Gorham: How does the old saying go? "The right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose?"
[17:08] Grizzy Griswold: Yeah, I personally don't care to see the fetishes of others on parade and when I voice that opinion to some in SL they say, "Well, you shouldn't be in SL then"
[17:08] Sean Gorham: But this is SL -- rarely does it work out so simply. :\
[17:09] Grizzy Griswold: and I don't think that's really fair... because SL has many many applications beyond fantasy, roleplay, and cybersex.
[17:09] Monica Oximoxi: I wonder if the fact that LL is in the san francisco area has an effect on their standards definition
[17:09] Grizzy Griswold: that is something that hadn't occured to me, Monica.
[17:10] Monica Oximoxi: it is not one of the more conservative places in the us :)
[17:10] Grizzy Griswold: but possible
[17:10] Sean Gorham tries to imagine SL being developed in Oklahoma and fails.
[17:10] Grizzy Griswold: I also really have a problem with the fact that I can't see if my abuse reports were handled
[17:10] Glorfindel Arrow: lol yeah, silicon valley and all that..
[17:11] Grizzy Griswold: or if the person was not reprimanded, I'm not given a reason why. If I file an abuse report, I don't know what happened beyond that.
[17:11] Monica Oximoxi: i had Bezerkley more in mind :)
[17:11] CleoPatra Guyot: that latter bothers me more than my relatively infrequent encounters with BDSM community
[17:11] Sean Gorham: True, Grizzy.
[17:11] Monica Oximoxi: true.. they don't say much.. but if sl had reporters we could probably find out
[17:12] Sean Gorham: Maybe I'm just a hermit, but I rarely run into the more fringe(?) elements of SL when I'm out-and-about.
[17:12] Grizzy Griswold: I am involved in some religious groups in world and some atheists who appear to be legitimate SL users and not griefers occasionally come to our events just to be obnoxious and make trouble
[17:12] Glorfindel Arrow: they used to have a sort of 'police blotter' on the web site, but dunno if it's still there, wasn't much anyway
[17:12] Sean Gorham: That's a shame, Grizzy. We're not all like that, honest. :(
[17:13] Grizzy Griswold: and then say that we are just afraid to listen or debate them, which we are more than willing to engage them in dialogue if they are polite and talk with us at a proper time (Not during a prayer).[17:13] Grizzy Griswold: I know that, Sean.. .several of the regulars here are members of SL humanists including one of my best SL friends.
[17:13] Grizzy Griswold: I always Abuse Report these people under Intolerance, but they never seem to get suspended or banned.
[17:14] Sean Gorham: The AR system has been overloaded long before either of us first rezzed.
[17:14] Grizzy Griswold: and I'm wondering if Linden Labs definition of Intolerance includse religious tolerance.
[17:14] CleoPatra Guyot: that's a good question
[17:14] Sean Gorham: More likely the definition varies depending on who's reading the email that day.
[17:15] Grizzy Griswold: I guess to sum things up I would like it if there was something a little closer to a rl standard of behavior for public areas.
[17:15] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, they probably think 'free speech' of the greifers, rather that your right to have an event without disruption
[17:15] Liska Fuchs: Yeah, your ARs probably get low priority, Griz, considering some of the griefer attacks I've seen
[17:15] Grizzy Griswold: If someone came into your church and started harassing and verbally abusing people and wouldn't leave they would be arrested.
[17:15] Sean Gorham: Grizzy, whose standard of behavior, though? That can vary widely.
[17:16] Grizzy Griswold: I know that's why we are having this discussion. (:
[17:16] Sean Gorham chuckles.
[17:16] Monica Oximoxi: I had an AR responded to in front of my eyes within minutes and the griefer was already banned when I filed the report
[17:16] Sean Gorham: Oh, it can happen, Monica. It's more the exception than the rule though.
[17:16] Monica Oximoxi: so I know the system works sometimes;)
[17:17] Grizzy Griswold: cause the question of that... and the other question is, how do we get that to be something that is understood. People think that because its a world that looks like a video game that can do or say anything they want and be as rude as they like.
[17:17] Sean Gorham: Yes... the "lol internets" argument!
[17:17] Grizzy Griswold: and I think maybe its up to us as SL residents to not put up with bad behavior as much as it is LL responsibility
[17:17] Monica Oximoxi: it takes peer pressure and years of civilizing training in rl
[17:18] Grizzy Griswold: I begged the clergy (we have rl clergy at my sl church) to please ban the griefers on Sunday but they were giving them the benefit of the doubt
[17:18] Monica Oximoxi: i would assume peer pressure would also work here
[17:18] Grizzy Griswold: ..but no one is that stupid. They knew exactly what they were doing and they weren't there for a dialogue they were there to be disruptive
[17:18] Sean Gorham: The pseudonymous nature of SL is a disinhibiting factor. Some people think they can do whatever they want since they're not "really" doing it.
[17:18] CleoPatra Guyot: how do the other members of your congregation feel, Griz?
[17:18] Monica Oximoxi nods true
[17:18] Grizzy Griswold: Most of them were similiarly upset
[17:19] CleoPatra Guyot: Do you think your pastors would ban griefers if a majority asked them to?
[17:19] Grizzy Griswold: I think it depends. We have about 4 different ones from various parts of the globe who hold services at different times of the day
[17:20] Amara Abbot: could the sim not get banning for known greirfers?
[17:20] Grizzy Griswold: but I think really the issue I want to address is what Sean put better than I can SL's "disinhibiting factor"
[17:21] Grizzy Griswold: The thing is Amara, I don't think these people are run of the mill griefers who joined SL just to grief. I think they are people who dislike Christians and take time in sl to torment them since its easier here. They use sl for other purposes, but they can't go to a church and harass people in rl. They can do that here. the "disinhibiting factor"
[17:21] CleoPatra Guyot: I do agree that there is such a thing as a disinhibiting factor, but I am also wonder how standards of behavior have been changing generationally
[17:21] Sean Gorham: Undoubtedly that's a factor, Cleo.
[17:21] CleoPatra Guyot: because standards have to be taught, and learned
[17:22] Sean Gorham: Twentysomethings conduct themselves online differently than, say, my father in his late 70s would.
[17:22] CleoPatra Guyot: I find lately that my traditional aged college students just don't have them
[17:22] CleoPatra Guyot: exactly
[17:22] Monica Oximoxi: most 20 somethings are not emotionally developed .. unlike your father :)
[17:22] Grizzy Griswold: well, that's a sad thing, because what it comes down to is a lack of consideration or empathy for another person's feelings.
[17:23] Sean Gorham: It's easy to forget there's real people on the other side of the screen.
[17:23] Grizzy Griswold: not if you've spent any amount of time here and formed any relationships. The Lindens seem to have a vision of SL being a place that brings a diverse group of people together and makes connections throughout the world and allows people to express themselves creatively
[17:25] Monica Oximoxi: hmm utopians
[17:25] Grizzy Griswold: People thinking that they can come on here and treat others like crap because its "not real" seems to be counter to that vision.
[17:25] CleoPatra Guyot: and I think that vision draws people here
[17:25] Sean Gorham: Grizzy, I think it's safe to say that any of us here realize we're all people. I'm talking about J. Average Internetter. :P
[17:25] Liska Fuchs: Too many think "creatively" means creating particle spam
[17:25] CleoPatra Guyot: most of the people that I relate to anyway
[17:26] Grizzy Griswold: Yeah, that's true, Sean
[17:26] Monica Oximoxi: it seems that the number of griefers has diminished in the last 2 years but there will always be griefers in rl they are cited for trespass
[17:26] Liska Fuchs: I don't know, I've only been on for about a year
[17:26] Grizzy Griswold: I don't see a lot of the typical type of griefer. The "let's make penises and pictures of Bill Cosby rain from the sky" griefers
[17:26] Monica Oximoxi: not for harassment
[17:27] Liska Fuchs: No, Griz, they're all busy hitting Luskwood
[17:27] Grizzy Griswold: but I have seen people that say "You are a member of a group I disagree with so I am going to harass you"
[17:27] Monica Oximoxi: it is too near ahern for it's own good i think
[17:27] Grizzy Griswold: I think Ahern is a collection of the worst SL has to offer.
[17:28] Liska Fuchs: Yeah they get hit by griefers 2-3 times a week
[17:28] Sean Gorham: Lusk will be where it is until they unplug the grid, I suspect. :P
[17:28] Grizzy Griswold: If I were a newb and I ended up at Ahern as part of my first experience in SL, I'd never come back.
[17:28] Monica Oximoxi: i agree sean :)
[17:28] Sean Gorham: Definitely, Grizzy. It's nothing like when I started.
[17:28] Sean Gorham can't remember the last time she visited any "Welcome" Area.
[17:28] Grizzy Griswold: The last time I did it was part of a social experiment
[17:28] Monica Oximoxi: I was in one today.. since this av is homeless. It's very quiet... a nice build too
[17:29] Grizzy Griswold: We tried on different gendered or raced avatars for a week... and part of the expeirment was to visit Ahern
[17:29] Sean Gorham: I remember reading about that!
[17:29] Grizzy Griswold: the people who were furries for a week were the ones that griefed
[17:30] Josiane Llewellyn: I am ignorant I guess - I don't know what Ahern is, lol
[17:31] Grizzy Griswold: I guess that the behavior that is a result of the disinhibiting factor (I really like that term) reminds me of high school.
[17:31] Grizzy Griswold: when I'm around people in SL who act like that, I feel like I'm back in high school
[17:31] Monica Oximoxi: it's one of the four sims that make up a welcome area usually called morris
[17:31] Grizzy Griswold: cause I was a nerd, (:
[17:31] Grizzy Griswold: probably some of them are IN high school
[17:31] Monica Oximoxi: WAS a nerd :)
[17:31] Sean Gorham: Josiane, it's where all new residents used to first show up, long before the Help Islands and such were made.
[17:32] Grizzy Griswold: cause I'm pretty sure lots of underage folks still find their way into SL.
[17:32] Josiane Llewellyn: oh ok, when I came in it was to Help islands :)
[17:32] CleoPatra Guyot: me too
[17:32] Sean Gorham: They did help. For a while. :P But that's a whole 'nother discussion!
[17:33] Grizzy Griswold: I think they have more new people than they can handle now. To bring up my other thought on ethics in SL, I feel that some of the sexual behavior that is permissable in SL promotes violence and abuse of women and that really bothers me. Most notably the stuff that goes on on the Gor sims but also graphic depictions of rape. There was a shop in SL where you could buy a skin that was made to look like a woman who had been brutalized and raped
[17:35] Monica Oximoxi: lol there's probably 5 now
[17:35] Grizzy Griswold: It even had a derogatory word carved into her flesh with a knife
[17:35] Sean Gorham: That's an interesting issue, since you can't really force someone to do something in SL.
[17:35] Sean Gorham: (Barring the use of modified clients, of course.)
[17:36] Monica Oximoxi: snuff movies in rl.. are they legal?
[17:36] Sean Gorham: I think that depends on where you are.
[17:36] Monica Oximoxi: i can't remember.. not something I've studied
[17:36] Grizzy Griswold: well, I understand that both parties involved are consenting and its not actual rape but at the same time it seems to be celebrating and glorifying rape
[17:36] Sean Gorham: Right.
[17:36] Grizzy Griswold: and glorifying treating women as subhuman
[17:37] Monica Oximoxi: it IS disturbing. There's a ton of the capture/roleplay stuff in sl
[17:37] Sean Gorham: It falls on that blurry line between roleplaying an action versus condoning it.
[17:37] Grizzy Griswold: ..and there are many who are willing to turn their heads and say "its just a fetish" and "they are consenting but I feel like if they are roleplaying something because they get off on it...
[17:37] Glorfindel Arrow: oh I think if they have 'red light districts' any kind of behavior will go on there
[17:38] Grizzy Griswold: that's kind of a step away from condoning it
[17:38] Monica Oximoxi: it took sl quite a while to prohibit age-play
[17:38] Grizzy Griswold: I do too Glor but I'm hoping that if its over there instead of part of ordinary life on the grid..
[17:38] Sean Gorham: Still, if they do it in private and don't force it upon others, is it really our place to interfere?
[17:38] Grizzy Griswold: maybe it will get marginalized and people won't be desensitized to it.
[17:38] Grizzy Griswold: Well Sean, I don't necessarily think that it should be against TOS but I do wish that there weren't so many people who are willing to look at it as ok...
[17:39] Sean Gorham: I didn't mean to imply I think it's ok.
[17:39] Monica Oximoxi: well there have been changes since i started.. try and search bdsm now
[17:39] Grizzy Griswold: You didn't
[17:39] Liska Fuchs: I just don't know if letting someone play out such fantasies in SL is a good thing (allowing someone to live out fantasies they can't do in RL), or a bad thing (encouraging & emboldening them in RL)
[17:39] Grizzy Griswold: but there are plenty of people in SL who don't seem to have a problem with it
[17:39] Monica Oximoxi: i get a content message
[17:40] Sean Gorham: I think if two consenting and otherwise healthy adults want to occasionally roleplay something outside the norm like that, it's probably not a bad thing.
[17:40] Grizzy Griswold: and Gorean "culture" is accepted by lots of folks in SL
[17:40] Sean Gorham: It's when it takes over to the exclusion of other activities, or becomes abusive, that there's a problem.
[17:41] Grizzy Griswold: I get the impression that most of the people who do that in SL do it to exclusion of anything else. I could be wrong
[17:41] Sean Gorham: When I was younger I experimented a couple times with BDSM play. It was interesting, but not my cup of tea.
[17:41] Sean Gorham: I suspect it's like that for many people here.
[17:42] Grizzy Griswold: I don't find the BDSM stuff particularly disturbing unless its really really hardcore stuff
[17:42] Sean Gorham: It's two sides of the same coin, really. The devil is figuring out where the middle road is.
[17:42] Grizzy Griswold: its more the slave and rape stuff that botehrs me
[17:42] Sean Gorham nods.
[17:43] Grizzy Griswold: Its when someone is fantasizing about hurting a woman, raping a woman, and calling her things like bitch and whore or the c word, that it gets into abuse.
[17:43] Grizzy Griswold: dressing up in latex and binding someone's arms isn't the same thing
[17:43] Sean Gorham: True.
[17:44] Grizzy Griswold: I don't wish to impose my personal morality on SL at all
[17:44] Liska Fuchs: Again, though, it's something that's becoming more prevalent in RL culture
[17:44] Shadow Riaxik: So because of your moral beliefs no one has the right to pursue life as they see fit for them?
[17:44] Grizzy Griswold: but at the same time I feel that activity that glorifies harming women is something that is generally harmful to society
[17:44] Sean Gorham: Is it really, Liska? Aside from stories I've (rarely) seen in the papers, I've never run into such behavior where I am.
[17:45] Sean Gorham: But then, I don't live in the big city.
[17:45] Monica Oximoxi: back
[17:45] Grizzy Griswold: well, see there are a lot of occasions when someone is "pursuing life as they see fit", but they are hurting someone else
[17:45] Liska Fuchs: I'm talking about the lyrics (if you can call it that) to rap, for instance.
[17:45] Sean Gorham: Oooh, don't get me started. There's rap and there's rap, and today's "rap" isn't. :P
[17:45] Grizzy Griswold: and I feel that putting interactive scenarios online where you are raping and brutalizing women is harmful, because it effects how those who participate view women
[17:45] Shadow Riaxik: There is that small percentage of people who do not respect women and will hurt them in RL and have been for centuries. SL has not changed that
[17:46] Grizzy Griswold: Yes, but SL is giving those people a way to find other people who also like to abuse women, and make it seem more ok, since there's a community of them out there.
[17:46] Sean Gorham: I don't know, Grizzy... I think people who participate in such things as you describe may have had issues before SL ever came into the picture.
[17:47] Sean Gorham: I know I couldn't do that, not even in SL.
[17:47] Liska Fuchs: Chicken/egg problem
[17:47] Grizzy Griswold: that's probably true, but continuing to act it out here in SL with others who are likeminded is making the problem worse not better
[17:47] Sean Gorham: Just thinking about me doing that right now makes me shudder.
[17:47] Sean Gorham: Probably.
[17:47] Shadow Riaxik: SL may give people a way of expressing their deisres without harming anyone
[17:47] Grizzy Griswold: its perpetuating the problem rather than curing it.
[17:47] Shadow Riaxik: actually preventing harm to people in RL. There isn't a cure for it
[17:48] Liska Fuchs: Yeah, Shadow, that's what I was speculating on earlier.
[17:48] Sean Gorham: I think both Grizzy and Shadow are right. The trick is figuring out which is which. Every case is going to be different, and no one set of cut-and-dried rules can properly cover all the cases.
[17:48] Grizzy Griswold: I think that if you get off on hurting others you should be seeing a psychiatrist rather than indulging these feelings.
[17:48] Shadow Riaxik: When sin entered the world it is here to remain until Jesus returns
[17:49] Grizzy Griswold: I think if you get sexually aroused by abusing others you have something mentally wrong with you and you need help.
[17:49] Sean Gorham: No disagreement there.
[17:49] Grizzy Griswold: and acting that out in SL is not getting help
[17:49] Shadow Riaxik: So removing SL will encourage them to seek help????
[17:50] Monica Oximoxi: at least some of them put their 1st pics up .. so if you run into them in rl you can back away slowly
[17:50] Grizzy Griswold: No, but I actually personally think (I am no psychologist) that having SL as a constant reminder may actually make them think about it more.
[17:50] Shadow Riaxik: SO what do you suggest the solution is?
[17:50] Grizzy Griswold: I know personally since I got rid of cable tv I think about sex less.
[17:51] Shadow Riaxik: So you propose we get rid of SL
[17:51] Grizzy Griswold: Well, I don't think that SL should ban it, but I think that the residents of SL should stop being tolerant of it
[17:51] Sean Gorham: I know since I got the internet I think about sex MORE. ;D
[17:51] Shadow Riaxik: SO go to the PG areas
[17:51] Grizzy Griswold: Well, like I said I'm not talking about all sex in SL.. I'm talking about the violent sex. I think that people like the Goreans shouldn't be accepted as part of the norm in SL like they are now.
[17:52] Liska Fuchs: I think they need finer gradations instead of just PG or Mature
[17:52] Grizzy Griswold: I agree Liska
[17:52] Sean Gorham nods.
[17:52] Shadow Riaxik: SL has Pg areas and Adult areas. If you don't like what you see in the adult areas stay out of them
[17:52] Glorfindel Arrow: sometimes you get griefed in PG areas, we were talking about folks lack of behavior
[17:52] Monica Oximoxi: ack my libertarian self says no more rules! but then... arrgghh
[17:52] Sean Gorham: Agreed, Shadow, but what happens when they bring it to you, instead?
[17:53] Shadow Riaxik: Sometimes you get griefed in mature areas
[17:53] Grizzy Griswold: Shadow in the case of the Gorean stuff its not that I simply don't like it
[17:53] Shadow Riaxik: you are not special
[17:53] Grizzy Griswold: Its that I think it promotes mistreatment of other human beings. Its like saying misogyny and violence is good that I cannot simply ignore
[17:55] Josiane Llewellyn: I completely agree with that feeling Grizzy but I think it is up to the owners of each sim to set what is allowed and what is not..
[17:56] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, like I was saying I don't really think the answer is making it against TOS.
[17:56] Shadow Riaxik: The gorean and BDSM culture is out there in RL. People in these cultures find each other and have RL clubs.
[17:56] Sean Gorham: I'm inclined to agree, so long as they're not breaking any RL laws.
[17:56] Monica Oximoxi: the material that makes up dreams and desires can be a volatile mix
[17:56] Grizzy Griswold: I think the answer is to make SL less accepting of it
[17:56] Shadow Riaxik: What are you going to do about those?
[17:56] Grizzy Griswold: IN RL people don't accept Gorean as normal or healthy
[17:56] Sean Gorham: Right. The issue isn't so much about enforcement as it is changing the cultural norms.
[17:56] Sean Gorham: Effecting such a change will be difficult at best.
[17:56] Grizzy Griswold: I have never seen anyone ever in RL publicly admit that they are Gorean and the reason is it wouldn't go over too well
[17:57] Sean Gorham: Right, because it's not "normal".
[17:57] Shadow Riaxik: What is normal??
[17:57] Monica Oximoxi: Sl has a sexual culture.. the gradations and variations run the gamut
[17:57] Grizzy Griswold: and I don't have a problem with people wanting to have BDSM sex
[17:57] Sean Gorham: Good question, Shadow. :)
[17:57] Grizzy Griswold: as long as they don't do it around me and in RL, unless you go somewhere looking for that you don't see it In SL, that's not always the case
[17:58] Shadow Riaxik: I had to go looking for it. It didn't just find me
[17:58] Monica Oximoxi: growing up near hollywood,as i did, normal is a very different thing than most of the country's normal;
[17:59] Grizzy Griswold: I occasionally see it in a furniture store or a dress shop or out on some random street in SL when I was not looking for it
[17:59] Shadow Riaxik: But in an adult area, right?
[17:59] Grizzy Griswold: Mature is not the same as adult. If I only went to sims marked PG 90% of SL would be off limits
[18:00] Shadow Riaxik: Mature in SL is basicly rated X
[18:00] Grizzy Griswold: Mature does not mean show off your kink to everyone.
[18:00] Grizzy Griswold: No I disagree
[18:00] Monica Oximoxi: None of it bothers me.. except if it's a temptation for me lol
[18:00] LaDonna Upshaw: but i agree with Grizz
[18:00] Monica Oximoxi: then I leave... quickly
[18:00] Grizzy Griswold: cause even if you are holding an event in a Mature sim, on the calendar you have to mark it as an adult event.
[18:00] Shadow Riaxik: In SL mature means anything goes
[18:01] Grizzy Griswold: then why do you have to mark if you are going to have adult content at your event?
[18:01] Liska Fuchs: But should it mean that, Shadow?
[18:01] Sean Gorham: The rules are changing soon - that's why so many are in an uproar.
[18:01] Grizzy Griswold: cause sorry but the Blarney Stone is not an orgy bar
[18:01] Shadow Riaxik: I don't have a problem with further segregation of adult content from non adult content
[18:02] LaDonna Upshaw: yes, adult behavior is more tolerated but it is up to who is making the rules on that sim
[18:02] Shadow Riaxik: I think in the long run it will be good for everyone on both sides of this discussion
[18:02] LaDonna Upshaw: the segregaation of sl?
[18:03] Shadow Riaxik: Yes they are preparing to move adult content to a continent by itself
[18:03] Grizzy Griswold: I think that is a good thing too
[18:03] Monica Oximoxi: ruffling a lot of feathers too
[18:03] LaDonna Upshaw: I personally look at that as a form of censorship and I am against all forms of censorship. You can avoid the sexed up sl
[18:04] Sean Gorham: I could understand that if SL was a public resource. It's not.
[18:04] Grizzy Griswold: That's like saying that not being allowed to walk around naked down the street in RL is a form of censorship.
[18:04] Liska Fuchs: It will be interesting to see where they draw the lines between "adult" and "everything else
[18:04] LaDonna Upshaw: it's not necessarily a reality, just because a sim is mature and that's the other issue. Who is gonna decide?
[18:04] Grizzy Griswold: but people think that, LaDonna, as Shadow just demonstrated
[18:04] Sean Gorham: In the end, it's LL's computers and LL's rules. That doesn't mean I agree with LL's decisions, of course.
[18:05] LaDonna Upshaw: let's take art, as an example. what if art features nudity?
[18:05] Grizzy Griswold: People think that if has an M at the top of the screen they can go in your bushes and have kinky sex in your front lawn
[18:05] LaDonna Upshaw: does that make it dirty?
[18:05] Grizzy Griswold: and if the sim owner isn't around you have to watch
[18:05] Sean Gorham: Just look at the one time in Burning Life, LaDonna. the Lindens got all in a tizzy over that statue.
[18:06] Grizzy Griswold: well, I would hope that there would be some sort of common sense...
[18:06] Shadow Riaxik: If LL eliminated all adult content they would go bankrupt
[18:06] Grizzy Griswold: Michealangelo's David is not dirty... naked pole dancing is dirty
[18:06] Sean Gorham: Wait wait... Lindens? Common sense? :D
[18:06] Glorfindel Arrow: lol
[18:06] Grizzy Griswold: I don't want them to eliminate all adult content. I never said that I did.
[18:06] Amara Abbot: no matter if it is SL or RL sex sales
[18:06] Liska Fuchs: Not an easy issue. How about Mapplethorpe, or Sally Mann's photos?
[18:08] Grizzy Griswold: I guess my point is Mature shouldn't mean anything and everything
[18:08] Sean Gorham: I do agree that the existing PG/Mature system could use some work.
[18:09] Shadow Riaxik: Sure they could do an Adult, Mature and PG
[18:09] Grizzy Griswold: and I'm sorry but I don't think "stay only on PG sims" because people should be able to f*** whereever they want if there's an M on the screen is really a good answer.
[18:09] Liska Fuchs: I wish they'd use another word besides "Adult", though
[18:10] Grizzy Griswold: maybe like movie ratings: PG PG-13 R and NC17. The NC17 sim could be where you are free to copulate anywhere you like.
[18:11] Liska Fuchs: Yeah, but without the numbers, I guess
[18:11] Monica Oximoxi: lol parental guidance
[18:11] Glorfindel Arrow: make it an X, because you're already supposed to be over 17 aren't you??
[18:11] Grizzy Griswold: yeah PG13 doesn't really work either
[18:11] Monica Oximoxi: now would that be an sl parent? or a rl parent?
[18:12] Grizzy Griswold: Grizzy's is really closer to PG 13 than PG.. we have our occasional profanity or innuendo but I want the club to be PG to let people know clothing is not optional
[18:12] Liska Fuchs: Did anything ever come of the idea of merging SL Teen into SL?(or maybe the Adult continent is a foreshadowing of that)
[18:13] Monica Oximoxi: lol moulin rouge the movie is pg-13
[18:14] Grizzy Griswold: but Moulin Rouge the movie has no explicit sex.... at least I think it doesn't.. I haven't actually seen it
[18:14] Monica Oximoxi: it's pretty risque
[18:14] Glorfindel Arrow: loose morals in old timey Paris....lololol
[18:14] Monica Oximoxi: but no sex per se
[18:15] Monica Oximoxi: rating sl content in that manner would be nearly impossible.. sl content changes too fast
[18:15] Grizzy Griswold: true it'd be up those involved being honest. even with things like they are now.. let's say you stay only on PG land. a PG sim can be next to a Mature sim
[18:16] Monica Oximoxi: for it to work it would have to inherent benefits to all
[18:16] Grizzy Griswold: and therefore a strip club can be in plain view of PG land negating its PGness
[18:17] Shadow Riaxik: put a wall up, I see them all the time. walls that is
[18:17] Monica Oximoxi: with camera controls.. sim lines are negated anyway and walls too :)
[18:17] Cache Forster: I figured - you meant the walls :)
[18:17] Liska Fuchs: And locking doors
[18:18] Shadow Riaxik: I think after the changes are made that will not be an issue
[18:18] Monica Oximoxi: but then you'd have to be looking wouldn't you?
[18:18] Grizzy Griswold: So basically Shadow, you are saying the rights of those who wish to not experience sex in SL mean less than the rights of those who wish to engage in it?
[18:18] Monica Oximoxi: I miss the wild west sl
[18:18] Grizzy Griswold: I don't want to see sex so I should stay away from 95% of all of SL and build a wall
[18:18] Shadow Riaxik: Not at all, I am just saying the right of anyone no matter what they wish to do, should not be squashed
[18:19] Monica Oximoxi: sex IS legal... and I am reminded of smoking laws with this
[18:19] Shadow Riaxik: and Linden Labs is working to make it better for all according to the rumors
[18:19] Grizzy Griswold: I think if someone paid for land on a PG sim they should haven't to build a wall unless they want a wall
[18:19] Shadow Riaxik: 95% or SL is paying the bills
[18:20] Grizzy Griswold: Like I said before.. I don't want to ban sex... I never said that
[18:20] Liska Fuchs: The wall should be the responsibility of the non-PG sim
[18:20] Grizzy Griswold: I just am saying the people who are having the sex should be a little more respectful of other people's feelings who may not share their kink
[18:20] Amara Abbot: you are right Liska
[18:20] Grizzy Griswold: and keep that stuff where it belongs.
[18:20] Shadow Riaxik: According to rumour LL is going to move all adult content away from PG content
[18:20] Grizzy Griswold: on the sims that are specified for that content
[18:21] Shadow Riaxik: So once they are done your complaints will most likely be taken care of
[18:21] Grizzy Griswold: I hope you are right but I don't see how they can enforce that given the huge amount of moving that would require. It will be interesting to see how that plays out
[18:22] LaDonna Upshaw: you know, from a business stand point segregation make no sense at all
[18:22] Shadow Riaxik: I am sure there will be problems, lag during the move and many frustrations during that time
[18:22] LaDonna Upshaw: and it will hurt business here
[18:22] Grizzy Griswold: Its not like they can't come on the non-adult regions, LaDonna
[18:22] Monica Oximoxi: but how many will?
[18:23] LaDonna Upshaw: why should a furniture designer, who includes a sex menu
[18:23] Grizzy Griswold: That's assuming everyone who is having sex in SL is here ONLY to have sex.
[18:23] LaDonna Upshaw: be forced to move that particular line off site?
[18:23] Grizzy Griswold: Ladonna from what I hear, sex beds and thigns like that are ok in non-adult areas as long as they aren't in plain view.you can put your sex bed in a skybox and it doesn't violate TOS
[18:24] LaDonna Upshaw: well, i don't do sex furniture yet but it's in the plan
[18:24] Monica Oximoxi: sadly to me, I think most people that are new to sl are looking for sex and may not even know there's another continent
[18:24] Liska Fuchs: Sorta like the adult magazines at the bookstore
[18:24] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, Liska.. and I think that's a good way to handle it
[18:24] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, LL with their typically heavy hand, do they suddenly whisk away all the 'M' sims, or just open a place for hardcore porn...
[18:25] Monica Oximoxi ponders possible LL names for that continent
[18:25] Monica Oximoxi laughs
[18:25] Grizzy Griswold: All I want is there to be an understanding that sex is not public behavior to be shared with the world.... unless you are somewhere where you want it to be the case.
[18:25] Liska Fuchs: They need to more actively seek input from SL residents on what should be "Adult" and what should be "Mature"
[18:26] Shadow Riaxik: I think part of LL concerns may be legal also
[18:26] Grizzy Griswold: its my personal opinion that if you want to have sex in world it should be either in a sim dedicated to that sort of thing or on your own private home.that's what I want and hopefully that's what this new thing LL is doing will accomplish.I don't think that is a horrible thing to ask or censorship..I think that's a compromise everyone can work with
[18:28] Shadow Riaxik: I think that's a compromise LL is going to force on us whether we like it or not
[18:28] LaDonna Upshaw: well, it makes opensim look better and better
[18:29] Grizzy Griswold: People who don't know what SL is all about tend to think its one giant porn machine and I think that LL is worried about that image for one thing. I think this will help with that
[18:29] LaDonna Upshaw: and i know that is what bothers LL the most but segregation isn't the answer
[18:29] Shadow Riaxik: but it also contains vampire sims amd combat sims
[18:30] Grizzy Griswold: and educational sims and religious sims
[18:30] Shadow Riaxik: should those be segregated also
[18:30] Grizzy Griswold: No, that's not the same thing
[18:30] Shadow Riaxik: Is vampire sims not as "evil" as sex sims
[18:31] Grizzy Griswold: I see nothing wrong with vampire sims
[18:31] Shadow Riaxik: are you Christian?
[18:31] Liska Fuchs: The Vampire & Combat sims are more what I'd call "Mature" but not "Adult"
[18:31] LaDonna Upshaw: the fact is, it's all basically choice. isn't it?
[18:31] Grizzy Griswold: yes, Shadow I am
[18:31] Grizzy Griswold: what does that have to do with anything?
[18:31] Shadow Riaxik: So a blood sucking demon from hell is OK
[18:31] LaDonna Upshaw: you chose what you want...and besides...everything is just a tp away anyway
[18:32] Grizzy Griswold: Considering that vampires do not exist in rl, I don't see where that is a valid argument
[18:32] Shadow Riaxik: But pursue vampirism in RL. They drink each others blood
[18:33] Grizzy Griswold: I have watched many a vampire movie in my day and it hasn't harmed me in any way
[18:33] Grizzy Griswold: I have never heard of anyone doing that, Shadow
[18:33] Shadow Riaxik: It is out there
[18:33] LaDonna Upshaw: everything is out there
[18:33] Grizzy Griswold: I don't think that everyone who RPs being a vampire is drinking blood
[18:33] Shadow Riaxik: I have watched many X rated movies and they have not harmed me in any way
[18:33] Grizzy Griswold: Personally whenever I have looked at something like that I have felt that it did harm me.
[18:34] Glorfindel Arrow: so you say
[18:34] Shadow Riaxik: So it really boils down to personal choice
[18:34] Grizzy Griswold: which is why I don't like accidentally happening upon it. yes, and my personal choice is to not look at it which is why I want it segregated
[18:34] Monica Oximoxi has always found porn films very good for putting her to sleep
[18:35] Shadow Riaxik: So you would be OK if the sim next door was a vampire sim
[18:35] Grizzy Griswold: To be honest I wouldn't really care
[18:36] Shadow Riaxik: Lady you need to go talk to your pastor
[18:36] Glorfindel Arrow: I don't like to be asked to be bitten tho...lol
[18:36] Grizzy Griswold: as long as they didn't come over here and ask if they could bite me every 10 seconds cause that is annoying
[18:36] LaDonna Upshaw: why would you care? why would anyone care?
[18:36] Shadow Riaxik: You have really got thing mixed up
[18:36] LaDonna Upshaw: why is fantasy against any religious teaching?
[18:36] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, what LaDonna said
[18:37] Shadow Riaxik: sex fantasy, vampire fantasy. what's the difference
[18:37] Liska Fuchs: Narnia fantasy?
[18:37] Liska Fuchs: BIG differences
[18:37] Grizzy Griswold: yeah
[18:37] LaDonna Upshaw: we have to live in the world
[18:37] Shadow Riaxik: The bible you should not drink blood. it doesn't say you should not have sex
[18:38] LaDonna Upshaw: and there are people in the world that do not believe as we do
[18:38] Grizzy Griswold: The Bible also says you shouldn't wear blended fabrics... what's your point?
[18:39] Shadow Riaxik: You are all down on sex, and I agree there should be a way to avoid it if you want to, but you are ok with a sim that has blood sucking demons being next door.
[18:39] Grizzy Griswold: There is no such thing as vampires in RL
[18:40] Monica Oximoxi: down on sex?? who?? ack!
[18:40] LaDonna Upshaw: we have to live in the world, and part of it is not acceptance...or even tolerance...but just getting over it
[18:40] Shadow Riaxik: I just don't understand how you justify that
[18:40] LaDonna Upshaw: deciding what you will allow to effect you, or not. not everyone is going to fit in with your bible. or even read your bible. does it make them bad?
[18:41] Shadow Riaxik: Satan worshipers drink blood. Do you not think that seeing vampires next door might lead to someone pursuing satanism?
[18:41] LaDonna Upshaw: hell no
[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: Because sex is a RL thing that while I believe it is a gift from God, it needs to be handled responsibly because there are real people involved and real emotions involved and so your attitudes and feelings on it are important as well as using it in an appropriate context
[18:41] LaDonna Upshaw: that's outrageous
[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: Vampires are something in horror movies.. they do not exist. they are a harmless fantasy
[18:41] Glorfindel Arrow: I thought we were saying that some things are not appropriate in public areas......
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: yes, that is all that I am saying
[18:42] LaDonna Upshaw: if i was a jew, and the person who lived next door enjoyed pork chops. how is that gonna effect me?
[18:42] Glorfindel Arrow: g'night Monica
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: I don't care if the people next door have a BDSM dungeon if I don't have to see it
[18:42] Grizzy Griswold: See to me having to look at it is the same thing as if they came next door and force fed you the porkchops. that's my point
[18:43] Shadow Riaxik: Google Real Life Vampires
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: Sex should be a private thing between those involved
[18:43] LaDonna Upshaw: but what difference does that make?
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: not a public thing shared with the world. Making me look at it is forcing me to be involved
[18:44] LaDonna Upshaw: but if i am a jew, i am not going to condem those that are not
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: I am not condemning anyone other than the ones who are abusive to women. I never said that I look down on those who do it or think less of them. All I said is that I do not want to see it
[18:45] Shadow Riaxik: I don't see what you are so up tight about, Linden Labs is going to do something about it
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: I just expect some common courtesy in not involving me in what they are doing
[18:45] Shadow Riaxik: It is only a question of how long and how they are going to handle it
[18:46] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, and we will see. I'm not trying to impose my morality on those people or say that I'm superior to them or anything like that. I just want it separate.
[18:47] Shadow Riaxik: You don't have to worry about me, If I was to have sex it would be in a private place
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: The only time I have a problem with it is if it is degrading or abusive to others which I feel the Gorean sims are.
[18:47] LaDonna Upshaw: i just worry about censorship on any level because it has a snowball effect
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: I don't see this as censorship so much as putting things in their proper places. In RL, if you want to engage in BDSM there are clubs for that sort of thing
[18:48] LaDonna Upshaw: we are all supposed to be adults here, right?
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: you don't get in the middle of Main street at noon and do it
[18:49] LaDonna Upshaw: well, if that's true, what is the proper place?
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: Yes, and adults have a sense of propriety. the right time and place to do things
[18:49] Liska Fuchs: I don't have a problem with censorship on private property. If it's my sim, I get to set the rules.
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: Sexual activity should either be done in your private sim or on a sim designated for that
[18:49] LaDonna Upshaw: the way some avatars dress...i mean over sex is everywhere
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: no in the middle of the furniture store or dresshop
[18:49] LaDonna Upshaw: everywhere... what are clothing designers who design lingerie going to do?
[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: I just want to be able to buy clothes without seeing someone leading someone else around by a leash
[18:50] LaDonna Upshaw: when will that be considered...too racy...for the general public?
[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: LaDonna I don't think that's gonna happen. LL I hope has better sense than to shoot themselves in the foot like that
[18:50] LaDonna Upshaw: it snowballs...and there are no real rules
[18:50] LaDonna Upshaw: you think so?
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: you can see people in lingerie on network television
[18:51] LaDonna Upshaw: look at the open space program and tell me about good sense and LL
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: well, if they want to do something like that Ladonna I will be with you crying censorship
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: but in this case, I think they've been the opposite and been way too permissive
[18:52] LaDonna Upshaw: all i am saying is that stuff like this tends to snowball
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: People were saying that when they got rid of that terrible ageplay..
[18:52] LaDonna Upshaw: and the real purpose gets lost behind the ostensible one
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: and nothing else has snowballed yet
[18:52] Shadow Riaxik: I think if they go to the extreme with censorship they will go bankrupt. There is a lot of money moving throught the adult areas
[18:53] LaDonna Upshaw: well, open sim is coming...and sl will not be the only kid on the block
[18:53] Grizzy Griswold: I don't think they are going to. They are in California.
[18:53] Amara Abbot: what is open sim?
[18:53] LaDonna Upshaw: this will not be the only metaverse
[18:54] Grizzy Griswold: well, we already have There and Active Worlds and some others
[18:54] LaDonna Upshaw: and for all intents and purposes...it is now but they are nowheresville
[18:54] LaDonna Upshaw: but that isn't always going to be that way
[18:54] Grizzy Griswold: Well folks, I need to wrap this up cause I have somewhere else to be at 7slt but thanks for coming and being a part of the discussion

Interfaith night at Grizzy's Cafe

2009-04-03T12:01:41Z

The Grizzy's Cafe interfaith discussion was last night. There is a transcript with hellos, goodbyes, Relay for Life talk, and other odd tangents edited out.

[18:24] Symmetry Munro: I'm still just a little puzzled by what your topic is tonight aside from it being religious in nature?
[18:24] Grizzy Griswold: well, when I was in college we would have interfaith nights at my campus ministry where we tried to work on what all the religions have in common and learn from each other's meditation techniques
[18:24] Symmetry Munro: Ah...
[18:24] Grizzy Griswold: and learn from each other's principles rather than the normal bickering between religions and I want to promote more of that.
[18:25] Symmetry Munro: I'm afraid that human nature promotes sthe bickering part
[18:25] Grizzy Griswold: especially since I"m not one of those "You don't worship Jesus so you're gonna have a BBQ spit through your butt for all eternity" type of Christians
[18:25] Symmetry Munro: Anthropologicially speaking there are limits in size to the number of people we can identify with and we are not all made the same -- physiologically or emotionally but you are right...
[18:26] Grizzy Griswold: I just think there is lots of needless bickering and discrimination in the name of religion that doesn't need to be there.
[18:26] Symmetry Munro: Yes there is. I mean...I agree with you...that's the "yes" part
[18:26] Grizzy Griswold: this is my effort to try to help with that
[18:27] Symmetry Munro: One of the reasons I like Episcopalianism it that is is a "big umbrella"
[18:27] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, you have a wide range of theological views in the Episcopal church and that's part of what I love about it.
[18:27] Symmetry Munro: Yes...but we are all Episcopalian. Not in lockstep :o]
[18:28] Grizzy Griswold: and just because one person doesn't agree with your biblical view doesn't make them less of a Christian which I have got in other places.
[18:28] Symmetry Munro: True...and like you...I live in the "buckle" of the bible belt. One group of Christians that I think we can learn from is Quakers. I have a good dollop of Quaker ancestry in my gene pool :o]
[18:34] Grizzy Griswold: so the reason I am having this discussion is that when I was in college, my campus ministry had interfaith events and I thought they were important because it made me understand how much the various faiths have in common and how we all have much more that we agree on than disagree with and we should work together and respect each other and as I get older I get less and less tolerant of any kind of discrimination based on faith.
[18:36] Symmetry Munro: I like that bumpersticker that says "Coexist"
[18:36] Grizzy Griswold: me too
[18:36] Symmetry Munro: With all the different religious symbols in it
[18:36] Grizzy Griswold: and since I live in the Bible Belt and am a Christian I don't get much discrimination in rl.
[18:36] Industria Dowler: I like that, too.
[18:36] Grizzy Griswold: but I get plenty here in SL. I have been treated rudely by other Christians because I interpret the Bible differently.. down to little things like the fact that I am a male with a female avatar... and I also have had atheists crash my Bible Studies and try to debunk what I was trying to say and just generally be disruptive and I think its really sad
[18:37] Symmetry Munro: I've had Pentecostal friends fuss at me for having male avatar too
[18:37] Industria Dowler: This atheist had polite inquiry. ;)
[18:38] Sage Damask: My friend had 15 griefers tp to her house in a Christian sim last night.
[18:38] Caoilin Galthie: hmm, noone has ever given me a hard time
[18:38] Industria Dowler: Oh geez. :\
[18:38] Grizzy Griswold: so I want to promote working together, (like me and Indy do)... rather than criticizing each other and being rude to each other.
[18:38] Symmetry Munro: YAY! (yay!)
[18:39] Grizzy Griswold: I don't think that ultimately on judgment day God is going to say.. "You lived selflessly but you read the wrong book, so you go to hell" ...and I don't think any of us have ALL of it right... so its best just to learn from one another.
[18:39] Symmetry Munro: There is not always harmony between the New and Old Testament visions of God
[18:39] Industria Dowler: Couldn't hurt to learn more anyway.
[18:40] Grizzy Griswold: but to do that we have to let go of our preconceived ideas about one another
[18:40] Caoilin Galthie: well, hearing about incidents like some of you have described, it comes down to basic respect
[18:40] Grizzy Griswold: ..and I think that is what is limiting us
[18:40] Industria Dowler: That's it exactly, Cao.
[18:40] Les Karsin: yes, religious stereotypes
[18:40] Grizzy Griswold: I think atheists have this cartoon idea of what a Christian is... Christians have a cartoon idea of what an atheist is (Richard Dawkins on crack)
[18:41] Les Karsin: people of one faith think everyone of a different faith is the same
[18:41] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[18:41] Grizzy Griswold: for some reason, faith is the only area where stereotypes are socially acceptable
[18:41] Symmetry Munro: That is a generality, Griz
[18:41] Industria Dowler: Probably politics, too.
[18:41] Symmetry Munro: There are a lot of stereotypes
[18:41] Sage Damask: Yeah, politics and religion. lol
[18:42] Symmetry Munro: Like the redneck stereotype
[18:42] Industria Dowler: Oddly, or not oddly enough, the two things that seem to cause a lot of wars.
[18:42] Symmetry Munro: And the "Jewish liberal" stereotype
[18:43] Grizzy Griswold: I personally am tired of being judged by the nutjobs who are on TV with screwed up ideas of what the Bible is... I do not want to be judged by the standard of Jack Van Impe
[18:43] Caoilin Galthie: well, they certainly get the attention grizz
[18:43] Industria Dowler: I can personally vouch that Grizzy and a lot of Christians I've met aren't nutty. :)
[18:43] Symmetry Munro: Is that the comic book guy?
[18:43] Les Karsin: they get the $$ too, Cao
[18:43] Industria Dowler: Jack Chick is the comic guy.
[18:43] Caoilin Galthie: of course
[18:43] Industria Dowler: If you're thinking of the one I am.
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: I think that part of the problem is that in every group.. the most insane is the loudest and gets the most attention.
[18:44] Liska Fuchs: That's the problem: the ones with the most extreme views get all the media attention
[18:44] Symmetry Munro: The squeaky wheel :o]
[18:44] Caoilin Galthie: well, and that just gets good copy in the media
[18:44] Industria Dowler: Yeah, it's hard to hear the polite, respectful people over the loudmouths.
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins sell millions of books...
[18:44] Industria Dowler: Good point, Cao.
[18:44] Grizzy Griswold: no one talks about CS Lewis because he's been dead for several decades
[18:45] Industria Dowler: Over the top things make headlines. Average things don't.
[18:45] Symmetry Munro: It is hard to be tolerant :o]
[18:45] Caoilin Galthie: well, to some extent too, there are plenty of us who want black and white answers
[18:45] Symmetry Munro: But not impossible.
[18:45] Symmetry Munro: I agree Caoilin.
[18:45] Caoilin Galthie: so whether in politics or religion, that comes out
[18:45] Grizzy Griswold: I personally have several liberal Christian blogs that I like to read that I don't even entirely agree with but I send links to them to people to show that there is a diversity of views among Christians
[18:46] Caoilin Galthie: and if you need to be so sure of your own beliefs, then you can't stand to see them challenged
[18:46] Industria Dowler: I think some of that is insecurity. I know when I was a fresh atheist I was insecure in my believe (or lack thereof) so I got defensive.
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: ...and the thing is.. if you aren't willing to listen to anyone else, you never grow
[18:47] Tearose McMahon: I envy people who are sure
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: My Biblical views are vastly different than they were 10 years ago.
[18:47] Tearose McMahon: I'm not sure about much
[18:47] Grizzy Griswold: and I am thankful for that.
[18:47] Industria Dowler: It's not surprising to be insecure when you aren't sure what you believe or having figured it out.
[18:47] Industria Dowler: Yeah, same here.
[18:47] Caoilin Galthie: well indy, i think there is also an element of being afraid of the unknown
[18:48] Les Karsin: People want to have certainty, and to be certain of their own beliefs, they have to deny everyone elses
[18:48] Industria Dowler: That's a good point.
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: Christianity is journey..... You only grow in Christ if you change...
[18:48] Symmetry Munro: That is true!
[18:48] Grizzy Griswold: and people who cling so hard to one interpetation of the bible are not growing
[18:48] Caoilin Galthie: well yea, if someone can be happy without having made a commitment to christ, then what does that say about that being the basis of my happiness?
[18:49] Industria Dowler: Yeah, as long as it's not hurting you.
[18:49] Caoilin Galthie: just to put a thought provoker out there
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: well, that is between that person and God.... everyone has a different path
[18:49] Grizzy Griswold: we just have to respect that.
[18:49] Symmetry Munro: The basis of all successful relgions..ones that endure...is compassion
[18:49] Sage Damask: Yes, Symmetry
[18:49] Symmetry Munro: No compassion...you eventually disappear
[18:49] Caoilin Galthie: i agee, just putting a thought out there
[18:50] Sage Damask: That was a point made at a Bible study I went to last night.
[18:50] Industria Dowler: Makes sense. I think people eventually get sick of lack of compassion.
[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: Yes, CS Lewis was of the belief that one could follow Christ without necessarily being a Christian
[18:50] Symmetry Munro: And Christianity can be a way to compassion :o]
[18:50] Les Karsin: It is much easier to see the commonality between religions if you dont take them literally
[18:50] Caoilin Galthie: well, then what is attractive about a religious way then, if it is harsh and uncompassionate?
[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: He thought that if you followed Christ's teaching even if you didn't know that you were doing so...
[18:50] Sira Asylum: Do you have a CS Lewis quote or know where he said that? I would love to share it with some of my christian friends, Grizzy
[18:50] Grizzy Griswold: then salvation was possible
[18:50] Industria Dowler: I think various religions and ideals can be a way to compassion. No right or wrong way.
[18:50] Tearose McMahon: being literal can be hurtful
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: hold on... I have a whole page on the theory which is called Inclusivism. let me find it
[18:51] Sira Asylum: Sweet
[18:51] Sira Asylum: That is definitely the camp I am in
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: Unfortunately most Christians who don't tend to agree with it dismiss it as blasphemy I find
[18:51] Symmetry Munro: I had to part ways with the Roman Catholic line on "inclusivity"
[18:51] Grizzy Griswold: because I have shared it in the past
[18:51] Industria Dowler: Sometimes I think people abuse the word "blasphemy". :)
[18:51] Symmetry Munro: I was raised RC, but had to leave it
[18:52] Tearose McMahon: Hum... I'm a retired RC
[18:52] Sira Asylum: I've got some friends on the verge of agreeing with me. I think reading about C.S. Lewis would encourage them to join the dark side (or as I like to consider it, the correct and loving side ;-))
[18:52] Sage Damask: I am RC, but I have to admit I don't take a hard-line on things
[18:52] Industria Dowler: I've dated a lot of RCs. That doesn't count, does it? Hehe!
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: http://www.theopedia.com/Inclusivism
[18:52] Sage Damask: lol
[18:52] Tearose McMahon: Only if it rubs off LOL
[18:52] Grizzy Griswold: I have a lot of respect for the Catholic church but have my differences that I think would keep me from being a member
[18:52] Sage Damask: No, my hubbie isn't RC, so dating one doesn't count
[18:52] Industria Dowler: Hehe!
[18:53] Sage Damask: Even though I'm RC, I go to lots of Christian events in SL not related to RC
[18:53] Grizzy Griswold: denomination is rather unimportant to me. There are certain denominations that I tend to avoid due to their theology
[18:53] Sira Asylum: Unimportant to me as well
[18:54] Grizzy Griswold: but other than that it doesn't matter that much to me. I could go to a Lutheran church just as easily as I could an Episcopal one
[18:54] Sira Asylum: That is an area I split with hardline catholics over. I couldn't go to a church that obviously misinterprets the Bible, preaches hatred, or demeans people.... but any denomination has the potential for that
[18:54] Grizzy Griswold: yeah, me too
[18:55] Tearose McMahon: I was taught there is only one holy catholic church
[18:55] Industria Dowler: Yeah, and any individual as well.
[18:55] Caoilin Galthie: true
[18:55] Sira Asylum: ha, amen
[18:55] Industria Dowler: Hehe!
[18:55] Caoilin Galthie: and get them together in a group, and look out!
[18:55] Grizzy Griswold: I think the "literal, inerrant" interpretation of the Bible borders on what Sira is saying because it makes the Bible more important than God
[18:55] Grizzy Griswold: it turns the Bible INTO a god
[18:55] Industria Dowler: When I stopped being a stubborn atheist and avoiding all things religious, I learned that I needed to learn more about people than their religious classification.
[18:55] Symmetry Munro: I like the term "bibliolatry" for that
[18:55] Sira Asylum: Some parts of the Bible are not made to be taken literally
[18:56] Les Karsin: there is a difference between "catholic" and "Catholic"
[18:56] Grizzy Griswold: I think many many churches are into bibliolatry
[18:56] Sira Asylum: What is the difference, Les? I don't know as much about Catholocism as I would like
[18:56] Symmetry Munro: Yes
[18:56] Tearose McMahon: I went to a friends funeral and the priest made a big deal out making sure the non practicing catholics knew they weren't welcome at communion
[18:56] Industria Dowler: I had that happen once, Tearose.
[18:57] Les Karsin: catholic with a small c just means universal
[18:57] Grizzy Griswold: Here's a video for you Symmie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFvTVGRO-dI
[18:57] Industria Dowler: I wasn't interested in communion anyway but I know there were family and friends who didn't need to feel secluded at a funeral. That bothered me.
[18:57] Les Karsin: I am a presbyterian, and our creed says we believe in one catholic (small c) church
[18:57] Sira Asylum: Ouch...
[18:57] Sage Damask: "catholic" is "universal"
[18:57] Sira Asylum: (to the funeral bit)
[18:57] Sage Damask: definition, that is
[18:57] Symmetry Munro: Well...I worry about the move in the RC church toward conservative orthodoxy...toward wanting to go back to medieval beliefs...almost
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I don't know what "universal" means in this context
[18:58] Tearose McMahon: I was hurt, we came to mourn and we were attacked
[18:58] Sage Damask: I have to admit, I don't always feel like I belong in RC, but
[18:58] Industria Dowler: Yeah, not cool at all, Tearose. :(
[18:58] Sage Damask: I don't really belong anywhere else either!
[18:58] Sira Asylum: Horrible
[18:58] Faith Enoch: has anyone read The Faith Club? Ot follows a Muslim, Jewish and Christian friendship Very interesting read
[18:58] Les Karsin: universal means broad and inclusive
[18:58] Grizzy Griswold: I just feel like the Bible like any work of literature needs to be read in the context of the time it is written
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I should read that. Sounds like something I would like
[18:58] Sage Damask: I never quite "fit in" with all the beliefs of one religion
[18:58] Symmetry Munro: The reason I can't be a practicing RC is that I would have to split off my beliefs and acceptance
[18:59] Sira Asylum: I don't think anyone does, Sage
[18:59] Symmetry Munro: Sort of mask my disagreements
[18:59] Sira Asylum: Everyone has to compromise on some issues
[18:59] Grizzy Griswold: The thing is.. no denomination or faith fits anyone completely. Everyone has their own unique theology. We all have part of a bigger Truth. God has revealed Himself to us in different ways
[18:59] Sira Asylum: Yuh huh
[18:59] Grizzy Griswold: but we have to be willing to listen to each other.
[18:59] Les Karsin: I am actually a Buddhist Presbyterian :)
[18:59] Grizzy Griswold: to learn from one another
[19:00] Sira Asylum: That has been a point of contention between my mom and I
[19:00] Sage Damask: My yoga teacher always says, don't be a fanatic. I am not a fanatic, but I have strong faith.
[19:00] Industria Dowler: That's an interesting denomination, Les. :)
[19:00] Symmetry Munro: Lee, my mom calls herself a "Southern Buddhist"...LOL
[19:00] Grizzy Griswold: If you are going to say you know it all, you are putting yourself on God's level.
[19:00] Sira Asylum: I believe some things my mom does not. I felt like I was going into confession telling her
[19:00] Sage Damask: lol. Buddhist Presbyterian. I understand.
[19:00] Les Karsin: LOL Symm
[19:00] Sira Asylum: And she kept saying "Are you listening to God? What does God say about this?" Because if it isn't what SHE believes, OBVIOUSLY God doesn't like it :-|
[19:00] Symmetry Munro: I admire Buddhism a great deal
[19:00] Tearose McMahon: Your mom is cool!
[19:00] Industria Dowler: Oh boy, so that didn't go over well, Sira?
[19:01] Symmetry Munro: She is 80 years old
[19:01] Sira Asylum: Nein. Not gonna bring it up again I feel good that I tried to talk religious differences with her, put the ball in her court
[19:01] Faith Enoch: Well, I think the greatest ssue in ANY spiritual belief system is legalism. That's when th issue begin.
[19:01] Sira Asylum: she shot it down, and well, I've done all I can do
[19:01] Grizzy Griswold: Thankfully I've talked to my mom about stuff like that and while she doesn't agree with me all the time
[19:01] Tearose McMahon: Faith, I agree
[19:02] Sira Asylum: Re the Buddhist Christian thing, I keep hearing that the two are actually really compatible
[19:02] Grizzy Griswold: she will discuss respectfully
[19:02] Industria Dowler: My mom is pretty cool about my non-faith. My dad kind of ignores it.
[19:02] Sira Asylum: That is good, Grizz. My mom isn't mature enough
[19:02] Symmetry Munro: That may be true, Sira :o]
[19:02] Sage Damask: I'm actually a Christian Yogi, so I'm bridging the east-west, too
[19:02] Grizzy Griswold: I t hink that if I ever decided to convert to a non-Christian religion or become an atheist, it would cause me deep family problems
[19:02] Sira Asylum: But she wants to be...I'm gonna keep introducing her to new ideas...And try again in a few years
[19:02] Grizzy Griswold: but I don't really see that ever happening
[19:02] Les Karsin: I find that buddhism and christianity are quite compatible, as long as you dont take either one literally
[19:03] Grizzy Griswold: Many Christians use Buddhist meditation techniques in prayer
[19:03] Sira Asylum: They share foundations of compassion and love for fellow man
[19:03] Faith Enoch: another problem I see is when people are not welcoming of a conversation to try and understan differences and commonalities
[19:03] Glorfindel Arrow: I went to a few 'Skeptical Buddist' meeting in SL, they don't deify the guy, just think he was a regular fellow with some good ideas...lol
[19:03] Industria Dowler: From what I know about you, Griz. I think you would have inner problems considering how strong your faith is.
[19:03] Sira Asylum: I took yoga from a guy who did that, Grizzy. He's my mom's yoga instructor and my brother's akido sensei now, haha
[19:03] Symmetry Munro: I find that i can't quite become a Buddhist, though, because my relationship with God is "personal"
[19:04] Industria Dowler: Glor, that's sort of how I view Jesus.
[19:04] Symmetry Munro: And I find much in Christianity that gives me strength and purpose
[19:04] Sira Asylum: Buddhism is more abstract?
[19:04] Symmetry Munro: Actually, Buddhism is the opposite of abstract
[19:04] Les Karsin: I wouldn't say that, Sira but buddhism is very diverse
[19:04] Symmetry Munro: It seems
[19:04] Sira Asylum: (doesn't know a lot about Buddhism. Can barely spell it. Is ashamed X-D)
[19:04] Symmetry Munro: Yes
[19:04] Les Karsin: some approaches to buddhism are very abstract. some are not
[19:05] Symmetry Munro: One of my husband's best friends is a Taiwanese Buddhist
[19:05] Grizzy Griswold: There used to be a Buddhist group in SL that was pretty active.. I don't know if they are still around or not
[19:05] Industria Dowler: I like some aspects of Buddhism and Taoism.
[19:05] Symmetry Munro: He studied with a monk, and they are always talking about their beliefs
[19:05] Faith Enoch: Buddhism is the only religion that doesn't have a God -- believe it is within
[19:06] Glorfindel Arrow: they can go overboard with the mysticism stuff
[19:06] Sira Asylum: But Buddhists don't believe in a personal deity? I see
[19:06] Industria Dowler: Yeah, I'm not a fan of the mysticism.
[19:06] Les Karsin: not in the sense that christians do Sira
[19:06] Industria Dowler: Unsurprisingly probably.
[19:06] Sira Asylum: Some Wiccans actually believe that too.
[19:06] Symmetry Munro: True, Les
[19:06] Sira Asylum: In a force or something rather than a deity
[19:07] Symmetry Munro: I think they do not see a need for "faith" in the abstract sense of a suspension of disbelief
[19:07] Les Karsin: Buddhism is experiential
[19:10] Sira Asylum: An aspect of Christianity I don't like is when people feel like they are charged by God to tell their friends when their friends are wrong
[19:10] Grizzy Griswold: me too, Sira
[19:10] Sira Asylum: or "wrong" in their oppinion
[19:10] Industria Dowler: That bugs me, too.
[19:10] Grizzy Griswold: I've heard a good term for that...
[19:10] Les Karsin: taking the speck out of another's eye
[19:11] Grizzy Griswold: coined by one of the Christian bloggers i like
[19:11] Glorfindel Arrow: I went to some Wiccan classes in SL and it seemed silly to me, they only talked about all the gear you needed and the calendar of holidays...
[19:11] Industria Dowler: It buts me when atheists do that to unwilling people of faith.
[19:11] Sira Asylum: I've a friend in RL who posted on Facebook that her friend isn't listening to her and God
[19:11] Les Karsin: with a log in their own
[19:11] Grizzy Griswold: He calls them "assholes for Christ"
[19:11] Sira Asylum: HAHAHAHAHA
[19:11] Industria Dowler: Hehe!
[19:11] Sira Asylum: Wiccans are a very very diverse bunch
[19:11] Tearose McMahon: LOL
[19:11] Symmetry Munro: I find that I can't take them seriously
[19:11] Sira Asylum: I couldn't think of a nice non-hyprocritical way to say "Dude, stop bugging your friend and let GOD handle it"
[19:12] Symmetry Munro: Its the Anthroplogist and historian in me
[19:12] Industria Dowler: I don't know too much about Wiccans but from what I gather it's too much ritual for my taste.
[19:12] Grizzy Griswold: There are some faiths I want to take seriously but have a harder time with and that's one of them
[19:12] Les Karsin: I like the Wiccan emphasis on nature
[19:12] Tearose McMahon: Sira, you said it perfect!
[19:12] Industria Dowler: Isn't there a Bible passage that says something like that, Sira?
[19:12] Symmetry Munro: I probably don't know their religion well enough
[19:12] Sira Asylum: Yeah, that is a part of Wicca that I like too, Les. Probably, Indy, hahahaha
[19:12] Grizzy Griswold: Judaism and Islam are the easiest for me because they come from the same roots of my faith.
[19:13] Sira Asylum: Wicca doesn't have a holy text, so pretty much every practitioner practices differently
[19:13] Glorfindel Arrow: well, it was like, regular religion is not cool enough, and I'm special with special powers.....so I must be cool too....
[19:13] Sira Asylum: I happened to make friends with a sane Wiccan who makes sense most of the time, so I didn't get the weird stuff right off the bat
[19:13] Industria Dowler: I imagine there is some of that, Glor.
[19:13] Symmetry Munro: There are a lot of elements of RC and Christianity that borrow from pre-Christian religions
[19:13] Sira Asylum: Yeah, Judiasm and Islam make the most sense to me too
[19:13] Les Karsin: we had a wiccan group meeting in our church basement for a while
[19:14] Symmetry Munro: Wow!
[19:14] Sira Asylum: Lots of Wiccans are really athiests who like to wear pointy hats
[19:14] Tearose McMahon: Wow, Les
[19:14] Industria Dowler: That's cool, Les.
[19:14] Symmetry Munro: LOL
[19:14] Les Karsin: I went to one of their services. It was pretty benign
[19:14] Industria Dowler: I'm pretty sure I've met some of those Wiccans, Sira. Haha!
[19:14] Les Karsin: our pastor was VERY liberal at that time ;)
[19:14] Tearose McMahon: Les, are you a Unitarian or something?
[19:14] Grizzy Griswold: Scientology is the only religion I refuse to tolerate on any level and actively ridicule
[19:14] Symmetry Munro: I don't think they would allow that in our church, liberal as we are.
[19:15] Symmetry Munro: Is it really a religion, though?
[19:15] Les Karsin: I was a unitarian for a while, but I'm Presbyterian now (when not doing the Buddhist thing)
[19:15] Sira Asylum: I won't tolerate hateful religions. Like some of the Aztec beliefs ;-) Or scientology. I don't even capitalize it
[19:15] Sage Damask: Umm, I hope you don't get offended, but this is an interfaith talk and people seem to be coming down on Wiccans a bit.
[19:15] Sira Asylum: If a lousy sci-fi writer made it up, I won't take it seriously
[19:15] Sira Asylum: I <3 Wiccans
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: I don't really ahve anything against Wiccans but I have a harder time relating to their faith
[19:16] Industria Dowler: Yeah, I have a hard time finding something a religion when it was made up by a sci-fi author. Scientology and Gor included.
[19:16] Glorfindel Arrow: sorry, just my experience of them
[19:16] Symmetry Munro: What's this about Gor?
[19:16] Grizzy Griswold: Gor isn't a religion... its just an excuse to be a misogynist
[19:16] Symmetry Munro: LOL
[19:16] Sira Asylum: I think Gor becomes a religion for some people.
[19:16] Industria Dowler: It's not a religion but there are people who take it to heart to the point of it becoming a lifestyle or basically a religion.
[19:16] Sira Asylum: It seems to go beyond a philosophy and way beyond a game in some cases
[19:16] Industria Dowler: Exactly.
[19:17] Sira Asylum: but I'm one of those obnoxious people who believes anything, including Darwinism can become religions
[19:17] Sage Damask: I don't know what Gor is
[19:17] Symmetry Munro: And Mormonism as a cult, too. I do know that there are many non-religious Europeans who look at Scientology as a cult
[19:17] Industria Dowler: That's a good point, Sira. You take anything far enough and it can be.
[19:18] Symmetry Munro: They have a surprisingly strong culture here in SL
[19:18] Tearose McMahon: Good point, Symmetry
[19:18] Symmetry Munro: That always surprised me
[19:18] Liska Fuchs: Gor, like Scientology, derives from the writings of a bad SF writer
[19:18] Industria Dowler: Sorry for not explaining, Sage. Goreans are complicated. I just learned a bit more about it this weekend by doing some research.
[19:18] Symmetry Munro: Tell me about them, Indy. How do they justify bondage and rape?
[19:18] Grizzy Griswold: The internet allows you to do things that are socially unacceptable thrrough a combo of anonymity and being able to easily find other people who share your same perversion
[19:18] Industria Dowler: Lemme dig out my notecards, haha! I haven't memorized it yet.
[19:19] Sira Asylum: Gor is a series of bad sci-fi books
[19:19] Industria Dowler: They believe women are biologically inferior to men and are happiest serving them.
[19:19] Sira Asylum: I know they are bad because I have read almost half of one ;-)
[19:19] Sira Asylum: Yeah, what Indy said
[19:19] Industria Dowler: And they are not truely happy until they are. As if we're fooling ourselves by being independent.
[19:19] Grizzy Griswold: You know.... um...... in the 1800s
[19:19] Symmetry Munro: They were ridiculed when they first came out
[19:19] Grizzy Griswold: plantation owners believed whites were biologically superior to blacks
[19:19] Symmetry Munro: Then why is Gorean RP so popular?
[19:19] Sira Asylum: Darwin believed that too (I promise, no more Darwin)
[19:19] Glorfindel Arrow: but what are the Panther girls??
[19:20] Grizzy Griswold: All I know about Gor is what little I've learned from being here in sl.
[19:20] Sira Asylum: Panthers are misguided heathens, according to Gor
[19:20] Industria Dowler: Some people have fantasies. So people find it harmless RP at first.
[19:20] Skye Lewellen: lol
[19:20] Grizzy Griswold: and from the movie adaptation I saw on Mystery Science Theater 3000
[19:20] Sira Asylum: They are considered savagas
[19:20] Sira Asylum: Savages, even
[19:20] Sira Asylum: I think the RP can be harmless
[19:21] Symmetry Munro: Yes it is harmless..all virtual RP is harmless...
[19:21] Industria Dowler: Yeah, it's the mindset that it can propagate that is the problem.
[19:21] Sira Asylum: Some women find it sexy or something to imagine themselves as helpless. The trick is, they aren't really.
[19:21] Liska Fuchs: Some of the vampire RP in SL almost goes to the point of being a religion, too
[19:21] Sira Asylum: They are just playing a game
[19:21] Glorfindel Arrow: really harmless, 'Grand theft Auto' even???
[19:21] Sira Asylum: And as long as it stays a game it's just silly
[19:21] Symmetry Munro: True
[19:21] Grizzy Griswold: I personally don't think you should roleplay anything you think is morally wrong in rl.. because it can desensitize your mind and make you more likely to do it in rl.
[19:21] Sira Asylum: I disagree, Grizzy
[19:21] Tearose McMahon: I agree Grizzy
[19:21] Grizzy Griswold: I do not think pretending to beat and kill hookers in Grand Theft Auto is a healthy use of anyone's time
[19:22] Sira Asylum: I wouldn't mind playing a murderer or even the Marquis De Sade in a stage play. I don't think RP is any different
[19:22] Industria Dowler: Some people can see it as only a game and not end up acting in that way. Some people can't.
[19:22] Grizzy Griswold: .. and when I say that the first response is always what about actors who play villians...
[19:22] Tearose McMahon: What you think about grows
[19:22] Grizzy Griswold: but in a story the villian is not glorified
[19:22] Sira Asylum: And I'm probably usually the one who says it, haha
[19:22] Liska Fuchs: RP differs from a stage play in that it's not scripted
[19:22] Sira Asylum: Sometimes the villain is, Grizzy. "Quills," for example
[19:22] Grizzy Griswold: the Villian is not the one with whom your sympathy lies usually
[19:22] Sira Asylum: Again, "Quills" ;-)
[19:23] Industria Dowler: That was a good movie.
[19:23] Grizzy Griswold: the problem is when your entertainment glorifies what is evil.
[19:23] Caoilin Galthie: what is quills?
[19:23] Sira Asylum: And for the person playing the character, to really act as that character, they have to understand. The character and their motives
[19:23] Grizzy Griswold: and I haven't seen Quills so I can't really talk about it.
[19:23] Sira Asylum: they have to be able to see from their point of view. "Quills" is a wonderful movie. I can't really summarize it, so Wiki it?
[19:23] Grizzy Griswold: Something that glorifies treating women as subhuman like Gor is not good for anyone.
[19:23] Caoilin Galthie: okay
[19:23] Industria Dowler: There's a difference if someone can act and separate that acting from their real morals and sense of self.
[19:24] Industria Dowler: When those two join there is a problem.
[19:24] Sira Asylum: I think it is totally possible to separate. I tell yah, I would much rather play a villain.
[19:24] Industria Dowler: I think so, too. But some people get too caught up in it.
[19:24] Symmetry Munro: Our shadow self
[19:24] Sira Asylum: Very true
[19:24] Grizzy Griswold: I personally think it is possible, but most people can't..
[19:25] Sira Asylum: They don't write good villains for women
[19:25] Grizzy Griswold: and its better to not
[19:25] Caoilin Galthie: and i think it depends on the person, but i think that there can be something therapuetic about being able to explore parts of ourselves in sl
[19:25] Sira Asylum nods
[19:25] Sira Asylum: I don't believe in AnythingGoes, though, just to be clear ;-)
[19:25] Grizzy Griswold: I don't want to explore the part of myself who wants to hurt and mistreat others. I want to work on ridding myself of that part of myself
[19:26] Symmetry Munro: I don't think you can get rid of it, Grizzy...just learn to live with it...
[19:26] Grizzy Griswold: well, indulging it.. isn't doing that
[19:26] Sira Asylum: I think there is a line between Game and Serious and the line shouldn't be crossed
[19:26] Grizzy Griswold: that's making it grow
[19:26] Caoilin Galthie: but where is taht line?
[19:26] Sira Asylum: Different for everyone?
[19:26] Industria Dowler: Yeah, the problem is that that line falls in different places for everybody.
[19:26] Industria Dowler: It's hard to define.
[19:26] Sira Asylum: (though I think there are some lines that apply for everyone)
[19:27] Grizzy Griswold: I play video games sometimes.. and sometimes I play video games where I kill people...
[19:27] Caoilin Galthie: the key is to recognize where it is for oneself
[19:27] Sira Asylum: (non-consent, for example. No crossy, no way)
[19:27] Grizzy Griswold: the line for me is are the people I'm killing bad and am I the good guy?
[19:27] Sira Asylum: Some would say that anyone who kills is a bad guy
[19:27] Grizzy Griswold: I can't play a game like GTA where I'm hurting innocent people
[19:27] Caoilin Galthie: well, in some ways, sl can be a safe place to explore, because you can always just log out
[19:27] Symmetry Munro: Well...I spent about an hour last night rezzing dummies in a Christian sim and killing them with arrows. It was very cathartic...LOL
[19:27] Industria Dowler: Yeah, I have a hard time justifying killing anybody in RL even if they are bad. Although I know realistically that happens a lot.
[19:27] Symmetry Munro: I rode some of them down with my horse
[19:28] Grizzy Griswold: I don't think exploring is always a good thing though, Caoilin
[19:28] Sira Asylum: You are teh ebil, Symm! (jk, of course)
[19:28] Industria Dowler: Although I admit to enjoying GTA and squashing pedestrians after a bad day.
[19:28] Grizzy Griswold has killed those same dummies in this very club
[19:28] Symmetry Munro: LOL
[19:28] Industria Dowler: There's no way I would do that in RL.
[19:28] Symmetry Munro: Well...I don't do that everyday
[19:28] Industria Dowler: If I see it in cartoon or video game form it's not disturbing but if I thought about doing it to real people I am disturbed.
[19:28] Sira Asylum: I wouldn't be comfortable playing GTA. But I don't think it is harmful for everyone and inherently evil
[19:28] Symmetry Munro: But I don't know why I call it fun :o]
[19:29] Symmetry Munro: Not very Buddhist of me...LOL
[19:29] Grizzy Griswold: well, I'm sorry I have very very very strong feelings about Gor
[19:29] Caoilin Galthie: dont be grizz
[19:29] Sira Asylum: No need to apologise, Lady Grizzy!
[19:29] Grizzy Griswold: and no matter how hard I try I can't say anything good about it at all
[19:29] Industria Dowler: I think maybe the novelty of the game is what makes it fun rather than the violence itself.
[19:29] Grizzy Griswold: I hate and despise that part of SL
[19:29] Sira Asylum: I think it's great that you are so passionately against it, haha
[19:29] Symmetry Munro: I think I told you about ths, but years ago, I was at an SF convention and we had John Norman a one of the Guest of Honor
[19:30] Sira Asylum: I am content to mock them :-D
[19:30] Industria Dowler: I could see Gor of a very mild flavor being harmless but it seems to be taken to extremes a lot.
[19:30] Sira Asylum: Wow
[19:30] Sira Asylum: I hadn't heard that, Symm
[19:30] Symmetry Munro: And at the banquet, we gave him a naked Barbie doll wrapped in barbwire
[19:30] Industria Dowler: I wouldn't have known who John Norman was before last weekend.
[19:30] Sira Asylum: (The book I read was just bad writing. Almost unreadable)
[19:30] Sira Asylum: oooooooooo!!!
[19:30] Symmetry Munro: With red paint all over her...LOL
[19:30] Skye Lewellen: the thing that bothers me about Gor and other sub/dom areas... is the treatment of a nother human as a sort of God to be worshipped
[19:30] Industria Dowler: Wow, Sym!
[19:30] Symmetry Munro: It was sort of a weird take off on Edgar Rice Burroughs
[19:30] Sira Asylum: Yeah, I hate seeing people do that, Skye
[19:31] Grizzy Griswold: not just that but treating other humans as something you can use for your own pleasure
[19:31] Symmetry Munro: John Norman seemed to enjoy the joke
[19:31] Industria Dowler: I read an excerpt of a book and it basically seemed like a romance novel for men.
[19:31] Sira Asylum: Yeah
[19:31] Symmetry Munro: I dont think the books are still in print...it's strange!
[19:31] Grizzy Griswold: If I saw John Norman, I would give him some spit from my mouth with phlegm in it in projectile form
[19:31] Sira Asylum: Some of them have been re-printed
[19:31] Sira Asylum: I <3 You, Grizzy
[19:31] Sira Asylum: Do it for women everywhere!
[19:32] Industria Dowler: Haha, Griz!
[19:32] Glorfindel Arrow: lol
[19:32] Sira Asylum: I say that I think Gor RP can be harmless, but I think Norman has a sick mind to have written those things so prolifically
[19:32] Symmetry Munro: It is pretty much Bondage Romance :o]
[19:32] Sira Asylum: Or wrote them at all, but that he writes the same thing over and over again in endless books...
[19:32] Industria Dowler: He actually has a wife and children. Wonder what their life is.
[19:32] Grizzy Griswold: well, lots of thigns can be harmless in some cases... but aren't in most
[19:32] Sira Asylum: Nah, Anne Rice's "Beauty" books are bondage romance ;-)
[19:33] Symmetry Munro: "He showed he loved me by beating me because I didn't please him, and then he kissed me."
[19:33] Sira Asylum: Gor isn't romantic in the slightest, imho
[19:33] Industria Dowler gags.
[19:33] Caoilin Galthie: and to be clear, when i said that exploring in sl can be theraputic, i wasnt refering to gor
[19:33] Grizzy Griswold: How did we get on Gor anyway? It was not my intention to talk about Gor. (:
[19:33] Sira Asylum: Gor = Religion?
[19:33] Industria Dowler: I brought it up along side scientology.
[19:33] Sira Asylum: oh noez!
[19:33] Sira Asylum: It's Indy's fault!
[19:33] Symmetry Munro: I think we're talking about different ways of life...different perspectives
[19:33] Industria Dowler: I agree with you, Cao.
[19:33] Caoilin Galthie: for example, how about those of us who use opposite gender avatars?
[19:33] Symmetry Munro: That we don't agree with
[19:33] Industria Dowler: Haha, yeah.
[19:33] Skye Lewellen: lol here's rl/sl ... just as sad
[19:33] Grizzy Griswold: I actually tink a lot of things take the place of religion for some people
[19:34] Sira Asylum: I do too
[19:34] Skye Lewellen: [20:33] North Habsburg: as masters we own more than slaves
[20:33] North Habsburg: we own human girls with full feelings, fears and needsof their own.
[19:34] Sira Asylum: Yuck
[19:34] Skye Lewellen: that bothers me
[19:34] Caoilin Galthie: yuck
[19:34] Grizzy Griswold: I think sports take the place of religion for some folks and some people do it with sci fi like Trekkies
[19:34] Sira Asylum: I think socializing does for some
[19:34] Sira Asylum: Healthy Eating and Exercise definitely does
[19:34] Industria Dowler: Trekkies don't take it to the level of religion.
[19:34] Sira Asylum: Some do, probably
[19:34] Sira Asylum: Going Green
[19:34] Grizzy Griswold: Indy, watch the movie Trekkies and then tell me that
[19:35] Industria Dowler: Trekkies make fun party rooms at sci-fi conventions, though. :D
[19:35] Skye Lewellen: :)
[19:35] Grizzy Griswold: there is a woman on that movie
[19:35] Glorfindel Arrow: lol
[19:35] Industria Dowler: I think maybe that goes back to Sira saying anything can become a religion, haha!
[19:35] Grizzy Griswold: who wears her uniform to work every day and insists on being referred to as "Commander"
[19:35] Sira Asylum: A woman? Liking Star Trek? ;-)
[19:35] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[19:35] Sira Asylum: Are you sure she didn't just do it for the film?
[19:35] Grizzy Griswold: they had an interview with her boss
[19:35] Sira Asylum: I am so skeptical of all documentaries and "reality" programs
[19:36] Liska Fuchs: Well, we're kind of equating "Obsession" to "Religion" here...
[19:36] Grizzy Griswold: He was like "yeah, its frickin' weird but she does a good job"
[19:36] Symmetry Munro: There was a fellow in front of me in the voting line this past November, who waiting with me for about three hours to vote.
[19:36] Glorfindel Arrow: I'd have to see her commision papers before i call anyone 'commander' heheheheheh
[19:36] Symmetry Munro: A nice guy.
[19:36] Sira Asylum: lol
[19:36] Sira Asylum: oooo I see where this is going, and I like it
[19:36] Industria Dowler: There seems to be a fine line between obsession and religion. I think when people take that obsession as a way of life and a set of rules to guide one's life it is closer to religion.
[19:37] Sira Asylum: Yeah, when it controls your life
[19:37] Grizzy Griswold: but religion as a "set of rules' is an over-simplification
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: But, I bet there are Trekkies out there who consider themselves Christians
[19:37] Industria Dowler: Haha, Glor!
[19:37] Caoilin Galthie: i think so too
[19:37] Sira Asylum: and they are Christians
[19:37] Sira Asylum: Sure, my parents love Trek
[19:37] Caoilin Galthie: for some religion can be an obsession
[19:37] Sira Asylum: (though lapsed as Trekkies)
[19:37] Grizzy Griswold: well, there are Trekkies who are people who just watch Star Trek......
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: Lapsed Trekkies....LOL
[19:37] Grizzy Griswold: and there are Trekkies who are obsessed
[19:37] Industria Dowler: Probably, Griz. I don't see it the same way. I'm sure I'm missing something in there.
[19:37] Sira Asylum: like the mom in Carrie, Caoilin
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: Wait until the new ST movie comes out...LOL
[19:37] Liska Fuchs: So the Prime directive isn't one of the ten commandments? ;)
[19:38] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[19:38] Sira Asylum: Yes, it is
[19:38] Sira Asylum: >.>
[19:38] Sira Asylum: <.<
[19:38] Symmetry Munro: How about "Thou shalt not covet they neighbor's planet?"
[19:38] Industria Dowler: I don't want anybody messing with time.
[19:38] Grizzy Griswold: Well Indy, I think its more like.. a purpose and principles to guide your life and you never get total truth cause you are in a constant journey
[19:38] Industria Dowler: That's sort of what I was getting at.
[19:38] Grizzy Griswold: to learn more and get closer to God
[19:38] Sira Asylum: If we try to define Religion we're gonna be up all night...
[19:38] Symmetry Munro: Amen, Griz!
[19:38] Industria Dowler: Yeah, heh.
[19:38] Sira Asylum: I've yet to read a definition that satisfies me
[19:39] Grizzy Griswold: .. a set of just rules is no more than a check list of things to do.
[19:39] Industria Dowler: That sounds more like a definition of your religion rather than religion in general.
[19:39] Sira Asylum: That's the thing; I don't know if there is a general definition that really applies to all religions
[19:39] Industria Dowler: Yeah, it's kind different for all of them.
[19:40] Grizzy Griswold: well, really that definition was just what it is to me
[19:40] Caoilin Galthie: well, i think a general definition is okay, but when you try to pin it down, what gets in and what stays out?
[19:40] Sira Asylum: I would need a dry erase board to explain mine
[19:40] Industria Dowler: Ok, I see.
[19:40] Grizzy Griswold: I think religion is something that is different to everyone.
[19:40] Industria Dowler: Hehe!
[19:40] Industria Dowler: Yeah, it's a very personal set of beliefs.
[19:40] Grizzy Griswold: and the reason I say things like Sports and Star Trek can be religions... cause anything that you dedicate your life to can become your personal god
[19:41] Sira Asylum: I concur with that, Grizzy
[19:41] Grizzy Griswold: that's why one of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt have no other God's before me."
[19:41] Caoilin Galthie: like star trek
[19:41] Sira Asylum: I think "Religious Dedication" is the step above "Obsession"
[19:41] Industria Dowler: That's a good term, Sira.
[19:41] Caoilin Galthie: what do you mean sira?
[19:41] Sira Asylum: I mean when it comes to material things
[19:42] Sira Asylum: To differentiate between being obsessed with Star Trek and being religiously devoted to Star Trek
[19:42] Grizzy Griswold: well I think being religiously devoted to a religion is a good thing. I don't think being "obsessed" with anything is healthy
[19:42] Sira Asylum: Yeah, thinking outloud. I think having Star Trek be your religion is unhealthy
[19:43] Liska Fuchs: Even if its Scientology, Griz?
[19:43] Industria Dowler: Hehe! Star Trek is pretty freaking awesome.
[19:43] Grizzy Griswold: I don't think being "obsessed" with Christianity is a good thing
[19:43] Grizzy Griswold: (and Dr. Who is better than Star Trek)
[19:43] Caoilin Galthie: heathen!
[19:43] Sira Asylum: Firefly
[19:43] Industria Dowler: All things in moderation. Who said that, anyway?
[19:43] Caoilin Galthie: lol
[19:43] Glorfindel Arrow: didn't they always try to make points about tolerance and good v. evil in the old TV show??
[19:43] Lludmila Mirrikh: You said it.
[19:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: Just now.
[19:44] Liska Fuchs: Socrates, I think
[19:44] Sira Asylum: Either God, Socrates, or Shakespeare
[19:44] Grizzy Griswold: Being obsessed with Christianity imakes you where you can no longer relate to anyone who isn't also obsessed
[19:44] Sira Asylum: fantaticism
[19:44] Grizzy Griswold: You quote bible verses. You become Ned Flanders
[19:44] Industria Dowler: I think that's a good point. You could insert anything where Christianity is in your sentence.
[19:44] Sira Asylum: ring tone "Amazing Grace"
[19:44] Sira Asylum: I don't think Ned qualifies
[19:44] Industria Dowler: Ned's not toooo bad.
[19:44] Sira Asylum: I think Ned is actually a good guy
[19:45] Caoilin Galthie: "i just want to talk about how amazing god is all the time"
[19:45] Grizzy Griswold: I think of those people who won't take part in any entertainment that is not Christian
[19:45] Sira Asylum: I mean, he dated that starlet and even slept with her. A fantatical Christian would never do that
[19:45] Industria Dowler: Yeah, I think so, too. He lives and breathes Christianity but I don't think he's one of the nutty ones.
[19:45] Sira Asylum: But yeah, I know what you mean
[19:45] Grizzy Griswold: that must have been after I quit watching. (:
[19:45] Industria Dowler: Hehe!
[19:45] Sira Asylum: Another homeschool friend on facebook posted a big thing about how he wasn't going to listen to any "non-christian" music during lent
[19:45] Sira Asylum: It was so ridiculous. It seemed like he was bragging
[19:46] Industria Dowler: Poor guy...he'll be pining for some Marilyn Manson by the time he's done.
[19:46] Sira Asylum: I wanted to ask him "Are you still gonna listen to Johnny Cash? Cause you know he covers songs by Nine Inch Nails"
[19:46] Glorfindel Arrow: lol
[19:46] Sira Asylum: Then he will be ripe for the plucking, Indy!
[19:46] Grizzy Griswold: I don't like Christian music.. except for old Gospel sung by black people, chant, and bluegrass Gospel
[19:46] Industria Dowler: Oooh! Haha!
[19:46] Sira Asylum: That's the really stupdi thing: All the kid listens to that isn't "christian" is Broadway musicals!
[19:47] Industria Dowler: So he gave up Cats and Phantom of the Opera?
[19:47] Sira Asylum: I think he just wanted people to congratulate him
[19:47] Liska Fuchs: I like classical Christian music, like Handel
[19:47] Industria Dowler: Not much of a sacrifice.
[19:47] Grizzy Griswold: I was listening to chants at work today and I realize that it would have appeared very strange had I not had headphones on.
[19:47] Sira Asylum: And Thoroughly Modern Millie
[19:47] Glorfindel Arrow: heheehh
[19:47] Sira Asylum: He is really into it, so for him...haha
[19:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: Love TMM ... the movie.
[19:47] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[19:47] Sira Asylum: haven't seen it
[19:48] Sira Asylum: I just get tired of the kids thinking they are "taking a stand" by "abstaining" from "music that doesn't glorify God"
[19:48] Sira Asylum: *gags*
[19:48] Lludmila Mirrikh: I want that Jewish wedding!
[19:48] Industria Dowler: Yeah, that's a pretty pathetic lent giving up thingy.
[19:48] Grizzy Griswold: I personally have found some deep theological meaning in lots of enterainment that is considered secular
[19:48] Industria Dowler: But I guess if he doesn't smoke, drink, have sex, eat red meat, watch too much TV, etc. there isn't much else to give up.
[19:48] Caoilin Galthie: i gave up giving something up for lent
[19:48] Sira Asylum: Especially since I did the same thing once. I am so ashamed and embarassed by my young teen self
[19:48] Industria Dowler: Aww.
[19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: We used to study pop culture in sunday school ...
[19:49] Skye Lewellen: lmao
[19:49] Industria Dowler: I was a dumb teenager once, too. But the atheist sort but it's not any better.
[19:49] Sira Asylum: I gave up SL for awhile cause I was on waaaay too much
[19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: ... trying to squeeze some sort of message out of it.
[19:49] Sira Asylum: It wasn't a Lent thing; when I need to give something up I just do it
[19:49] Sira Asylum: But I am totally NOT against Lent.
[19:49] Grizzy Griswold: When I was a teenager I read.... um..... I read..........Left Behind.. and I ....... liked them....
[19:49] Sira Asylum: Rock on, Lent observers!
[19:49] Sira Asylum: So did I, Grizzy
[19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: ACK!
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold hangs her head in shame
[19:50] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[19:50] Lludmila Mirrikh: You have NO call to complain about Twilight!
[19:50] Sira Asylum: We've got to move on
[19:50] Sira Asylum: ROFL
[19:50] Glorfindel Arrow: wow
[19:50] Industria Dowler: Ah haha!
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold: I grew out of it
[19:50] Sira Asylum: Left Behind makes Twilight look like bloody Lord of the Rings
[19:50] Skye Lewellen: lololol
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold: Now I read a blog that picks them apart
[19:50] Glorfindel Arrow: hehehhh
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold: the guy has left Behind friday's
[19:50] Sira Asylum: I must know more of this blog
[19:50] Grizzy Griswold: with passages from the books and clips from the movies and he rips them apart
[19:51] Sira Asylum: Oh Lordy I must know more
[19:51] Lludmila Mirrikh: That was a fun blog. I was reading bits to Bob.
[19:51] Grizzy Griswold: Hold on I'll give you a link that is filtered by Left Behind posts. Guy is a Chrsitian too
[19:51] Sira Asylum: No one rips Christians better than Christians cause they get it, haha
[19:51] Industria Dowler: It's probably taken more seriously that way, too.
[19:52] Grizzy Griswold: http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind/
[19:52] Industria Dowler: I know if I critiqued Left Behind I'd be called a dirty atheist, haha.
[19:52] Grizzy Griswold: there ya go.. All Left Behind Fridays
[19:52] Sira Asylum: I would imagine so, since we have a vested interest in stopping other peopel form making us look stupid
[19:52] Industria Dowler: Good point.
[19:52] Sira Asylum: YAAAAY!!!! This will be the best Spring Break ever
[19:52] Industria Dowler: YAY! (yay!)
[19:53] Sira Asylum: But I'm sure no Christian would fault you for making fun of Left Behind, Indy.
[19:53] Grizzy Griswold: I have reread the entire first novel as an adult thanks to Left Behind Fridays
[19:53] Industria Dowler: Well, none of the ones who's opinions I care about, I think.
[19:53] Grizzy Griswold: and I was appalled upon my rereading
[19:53] Industria Dowler: Although I think my cousin likes them and she's like another sister to me.
[19:53] Sira Asylum: I think it's possible to like them without being a moron
[19:53] Industria Dowler: We've had good discussions about Christianity/atheism before, though.
[19:53] Industria Dowler: Yeah, I think so.
[19:53] Sira Asylum: You can like them ironically....
[19:53] Industria Dowler: Haha!
[19:53] Sira Asylum: You can like them in a masochistic way....
[19:54] Grizzy Griswold: Any novels whose main characters are named Buck, Rayford, and Hattie are going to be an easy target
[19:54] Industria Dowler: Heh, Buck.
[19:54] Lludmila Mirrikh: Don't read them now!
[19:54] Sira Asylum: I hate to say this, but it sounds like the authors got the names from a Gay Name Dictionary
[19:54] Sira Asylum: I'm going to hell now
[19:54] Lludmila Mirrikh: Oooo, there's a Gay Name Dictionary?!
[19:54] Sira Asylum: I assume
[19:54] Industria Dowler: I was going to say they all sound like Southern names.
[19:55] Sira Asylum: "Buck" around here means only one thing and it isn't southern, unless accompanied by an accent
[19:55] Sira Asylum: Buck, Julien, Lance....
[19:55] Grizzy Griswold: I've lived in the south all my life and I've never met anyone named Buck, Rayford, or Hattie.
[19:56] Industria Dowler: I'm saying they are like the Southers in books and movies and crap.
[19:57] Grizzy Griswold: but anyway.... we were on obsession I think
[19:57] Sira Asylum: Who knows what we were on
[19:57] Industria Dowler: I think so.
[19:57] Grizzy Griswold: the difference between religious devotion and obsession and whY I think obession is bad and religious devotion is not
[19:58] Sira Asylum: Obsession is always bad.....
[19:58] Grizzy Griswold: I think when faith gets to be a problem is when you want to make the world just like you..
[19:58] Sira Asylum: Religious Devotion is only bad if it is misplaced?
[19:58] Sira Asylum: Yeah,
[19:58] Sira Asylum: I hate how Christians are stereotyped as ALL wanting that
[19:59] Industria Dowler: Can't blame you for that.
[19:59] Sira Asylum: I watched "But I'm a Cheerleader!" the other night. Full of straw men when it comes to Conservative and Christian characters
[19:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: We don't hear enough from the moderate Christians.
[19:59] Industria Dowler: Atheists often get the other end of that stick.
[19:59] Sira Asylum: But some of the stereotypes are so true
[19:59] Grizzy Griswold: ..and see I think the extreme atheists are just as bad.. they don't want anyone to believe in God and they want to irradicate religion
[19:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: true
[19:59] Sira Asylum: Yuh huh
[19:59] Grizzy Griswold: That is why when I tried to read Dawkins he made me so angry. Its not that he didn't believe in God..
[19:59] Sira Asylum: I was gonna say his name, hahahaha
[19:59] Industria Dowler: Dawkins just bored me to death.
[19:59] Grizzy Griswold: its that he hated the fact that anyone believes in God
[19:59] Sira Asylum: He's so rude and abrasive about it
[20:00] Skye Lewellen: anytime you think you should control what's in someone else's head... it's wrong
[20:00] Sira Asylum: I don't read books by hateful people, no matter what their belief system
[20:00] Grizzy Griswold: He was on last seasons Dr. Who in a cameo.. I was hoping Daleks would kill him.
[20:00] Sira Asylum: ewww
[20:00] Liska Fuchs: heh
[20:00] Lludmila Mirrikh: I didn't read The God Delusion because I heard it was mean-spirited. I don't have to read that.
[20:00] Industria Dowler: I have it but only got partly through.
[20:01] Grizzy Griswold: I personally found it mean-spirited but I skimmed it and I am admittedly biased
[20:01] Sira Asylum: I am so disappointed every time I make friends with someone online and then read that they adore Dawkins
[20:02] Liska Fuchs: Medved asked him if he thought Christianity had done anything positive for the world, and he said "No."
[20:02] Lludmila Mirrikh: I read The Friendly Atheist blog - he had a dialogue with a pastor, as opposed to a debate.
[20:02] Sira Asylum: wow
[20:02] Industria Dowler: I think mean Christians get taken more seriously than mean atheists.
[20:02] Skye Lewellen: christians are supposed to be "nice"
[20:02] Industria Dowler: Yeah, that's a little stunted thinking that, Liska.
[20:02] Sira Asylum: I don't know if I would agree, Indy
[20:03] Industria Dowler: He is stunted thinking that is what I meant.
[20:03] Liska Fuchs: Forget the millions raised by Christian charities, i guess...
[20:03] Industria Dowler: Yeah, or any of the good lessons taught.
[20:03] Sira Asylum: I mean I think mean christians are treated worse than pretty much anyone else in the media, anyway
[20:03] Sira Asylum: Or uh, the ending of Slavery and founding of colleges
[20:04] Skye Lewellen: as soon as an argument loses reason and/or rationality it desecnds towards dogma
[20:04] Glorfindel Arrow: well, he can name 1,000 bad things done, but what about th Million good things done ??
[20:04] Sira Asylum: It's just ridiculous to say that Christianity has never done anything good.
[20:05] Skye Lewellen: Yeah! neener, neener, neener!
[20:05] Liska Fuchs: That's why I think Dawkins is a dishonest poser
[20:17] Sira Asylum: Do you think anyone's religion is themself?
[20:17] Industria Dowler: What do you mean?
[20:17] Skye Lewellen: yeah... mugabe...for one
[20:18] Industria Dowler: Like narcissism?
[20:18] Sira Asylum: I don't know, I'm just thinking
[20:18] Skye Lewellen: mmhmm narcisism with weapons, sycophants and power is a BAD thing
[20:19] Sira Asylum: Ozymandius = Narcicist?

Prolong my showgirl career

2009-03-25T22:48:21Z

On March 24th at Grizzy's Cafe, you donated 53,000L to the American Cancer Society through Relay for Life. My team is Spinners for Life. As of today March 25th, our team is currently ranked 11th. This is mostly due to your overwhelming generousity last night. You gave almost 200 American dollars.

I promised that if 40,000L were raised I would dress as a showgirl fulltime while in SL. I am going to make good on that promise. However some of you expressed disappointment that you were not able to increase the longetivity of my career as a showgirl farther. I am now going to give you that option, but it is going to be very pricy.

If you go to http://www.rflofsl.org and scroll down to where it says "Team Totals." You can see the ranking of our teams. My last day as a showgirl is currently April 21st. At that point, whether my showgirl career continues depends on the ranking of Spinners for Life.

If Spinners is in the top 10, I will add one additional week onto my time.

If Spinners is in the top 5, I will add two additional weeks onto my time.

If they are in the top 3, I will add 4 additional weeks and if they are ranked number one I will add 8 weeks.

If you want to donate and make sure the money gets counted towards Spinners for Life, there is a kiosk downstairs in the club. Good luck.

I have added a title to my outfit which tells how much money the Grizzy's Cafe kiosk has and the current estimate of how long I will be a showgirl.

Thanks to all my fantastic club patrons!

2009-03-25T03:47:28Z

The Relay for Life event was a tremendous success! I cannot believe how generous my club patrons were with their Lindens. We raised 50000L! That is nearly 200 bucks of RL cash. I thought that the total would probably be around 15000L, maybe 20000L. I am really amazed and incredibly proud that we raised so much. Thank you all for your generousity! .....and as a result, I now have to dress as a showgirl until April 21st, so if you see me in world between now then, I'll have feathers on my butt and fishnets on my legs. Next time I do this, the goal to make me humiliate myself will be higher!

Relay for Life fundraising, Aster Estates

2009-03-18T12:06:06Z

Revised slightly: 3/19/2009

Hey everyone,

I am coming out of a long period of non-posting to spam your friends page with some advertisements.

FIRST, Please mark your calendars for March 24th and be sure to be at Grizzy's Cafe at 6:30slt. We will be raising money for Relay for Life. My DJ Edward Bournemouth will be having his famous Bournemouth Ulitimatum. Basically how it works is, Ed threatens to play songs that are pretty much famous for being hated: Seasons in the Sun, Feelings, Afternoon Delight, MacArthur Park, Achy Breaky Heart, and many more of that ilk. You can stop him from playing by bidding on a song, or if you really like Midnight at the Oasis, you finally have a socially acceptable way to request that it be played by bidding FOR the song. Some songs have been controversial enough to inspire some pretty heated bidding wars.

If that wasn't reason enough to come, your money not only goes to Cancer Research AND preventing bad music from being played. It also goes towards me publicly humiliating myself in SL. If we reach a 5000L goal, I will dress in nothing but showgirl costumes for an entire week. You will not see me for a week without a corset, ostrich feathers, a top hat, or bunny ears and a tail. This will especially be interesting on Sunday when I usually attend SL Bible Studies and church services.

If the 5000L goal is reached early enough in the event that there is a significant amount of time left, I may be willing to sweeten the pot, by agreeing to add time to my sentence. The deeper your pockets are the longer the period of time that I play dressup. If you have enough money, you can severely limit my sartorial choices for a long time.

So if you really love or really hate Brand New Key or you've always wanted to see more of my avatar's pretty skin that I payed a lot of money for, please be there on Tuesday, March 24th and bring a friend. Remember its ultimately not about musical tastes or making me look slutty. Its about helping fund Cancer research.

Also if you or anyone else in SL is looking for a place to rent, please consider Aster Estates (www.asterestates.com). The homes are not only nice but they help support Grizzy's Cafe. They basically pay for my sim. You can also rent by visiting the vendor kiosk just outside of the door to the club.

Halloween

2008-10-31T03:57:10Z

So I decided to make Halloween week at the club one big long costume party. I've done enough themed events at the Cafe that half of my wardrobe is costumes of one sort or another so it wasn't hard to do, but I wanted something new and different for the big Halloween party which was tonight. I'd never done a group costume before SL so I thought I'd do that. So for those who missed it, here are me, LaDonna, and Skye as.....

Fun outfits and a fun event. Thought I'd share.

grizzygriswold @ 2008-10-23T15:06:00

2008-10-23T19:11:57Z

There is one thing about SL that is simultaneously one of the worst and one of the best things about it. You get exposed to people who have a variety of viewpoints. Let's face it. Despite the fact that in life we may attempt to socialize with lots of different types of people, we usually end up with people who generally think like we do. The reason why is both because of the areas we live in and because we generally take part in rl activities that interest us which probably attract the same types of people. SL just dumps people from all over the world with widely differing worldviews into one big place.
I like that about SL because I like to hear other people's points of views. It makes me rethink my own. Sometimes over a long period of time it changes it my mind. Its a good thing. It also can be extremely frustrating to me. The main reason is because it seems like there are a lot of people in SL that have views that are so extreme that I find it hard to have a civil conversation with them.
I've been told that I am going to hell or that I'm not a true Christian because I don't believe x by religious people in sl more times than I can count. I think I've had something like that said to me maybe 3 or 4 times in rl and it was by some crazy guy yelling on a street corner with a Bible that everyone was ignoring. I've also been told that I am a delusional idiot that needs to be deprogrammed because I believe in God by countless SL atheists and humanists. I don't remember that EVER happening to me in rl.
I am not for regulating SL to death. I do not like most of the sexual aspects of SL's content, but I am willing to let it continue to exist. However some of it is demeaning to other human beings and promotes extremely unhealthy attitudes towards women and I'm sorry I have to speak out against those things. The people who practice such things act as if it should be their right to mistreat people because its a virtual reality world. They also act like I should just put up with or leave.

All these people that I've mention are extremists, but I think due to anonymity and lack of potential for physical harm, extremists are more comfortable being extreme in sl. It makes SL harder for people who AREN'T extremists though.

Then there is politics. This actually is not much different in SL then it is in RL. It just seems there are more people who disagree with me in SL and everyone in SL is more vocal about politics than in RL (at least where I am from). I try to discuss things civilly, but I do have strong feelings that one of the 2 candidates would not be a good choice and he seems to be the more popular candidate in sl. I am usually in the minority and I get ganged up on and my side's views on issues tend to get twisted by those who disagree with me into over the top cartoon demonized versions of the actual argument. I've seen the same thing done by my side of the aisle. I'm not saying its exclusive. I'm just saying it makes me uncomfortable.
During a time like this, if the nation is going to be unified in any way, a presidential candidate being elected is not what is going to do it. We need to realize that we all are trying to do what we think is best for our nation and the world. Its just that we have very different ideas about how to go about it. That's the general case. Also neither candidate is perfect. Neither candidate is fully good or fully bad. They all have their share of things that should be looked into and investigated.

What this comes down to is this: At the Cafe the other night, Glor mentioned that most of what we talk about is TV and movies and music and asked why don't we talk about something else. I have also received request to include more discussion topics, which I would LOVE to do. The reason things are the way they are is because I'm becoming reluctant to give my opinion on anything of importance in sl (politics, religion, you name it) except in the presence of close friends or in groups designated for that specific topic, because I am afraid of starting something ugly whenever I do. I want Grizzy's Cafe to be a place where we can have meaningful discussions, but more than I want it to be a place where everyone feels welcome and comfortable, and people respect each other. I'm not entirely sure how to have both. Do you have any ideas about how to do this or any suggestions for topics that people can talk about civilly?

Discussion: How does SL affect your RL?

2008-10-10T03:44:37Z

Here is the transcript from tonight's discussion on how SL affects RL:

You of course is me.

[18:37] You: Anyway I guess I'll start out by telling a little about my thoughts on sl and then I'll open it up for discussion. SL has been a wonderful experience for me. I am an introvert in rl and while I have a few close friends I'm not really a social butterfly in rl. I go out on the weekends and have some things I'm involved in but I'm an introvert. SL has helped me overcome some of my shyness just because its easier for me to be outgoing here cause I don't look like I do in rl and its just easier to do stuff but I didn't realize how much sl means to me until a few weeks ago when I met an sl friend in rl for the first time which is Llud over there. (:
[18:40] Lludmila Mirrikh blushes.
[18:40] You: I realized that SL friendships do mean as much as rl friendships despite the fact that I can't give the people a hug... or come over to their house for dinner. We are still friends and it still means a lot. Also that same weekend hurricane Ike and affected some of my SL friends including Skye over there and I realized how worried I was about them...
[18:41] Skye Lewellen smiles
[18:41] You: and all that happening in one weekend made me realize how much SL people mean to me and how SL is yet another of the many ways I am blessed in life.
[18:42] Symmetry Munro: well spoken!
[18:42] Symmetry Munro: APPLAUSE!!!!
[18:42] You: It took all that for me to realize how much this world does matter....
[18:42] Skye Lewellen: hear hear!
[18:42] Symmetry Munro: YAY! (yay!)
[18:42] You: and that its a good and healthy thing as long as your SL doesn't become your first life
[18:43] You: and I think I am a better person for being here and have taken away much more from here than I could ever give back.
[18:43] Symmetry Munro: And you run a great club, too :o]
[18:43] You: and I guess that's really the impact that sl ahs had on me... but I'll shut up for while and let some other people talk since this is a discussion and not a speech. (:
[18:43] You: thanks Symm
[18:44] Symmetry Munro: One negative....not here...but other places is the tendency toward drama
[18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: It's like RL that way.
[18:44] Symmetry Munro: Some people bring their outside problems into SL, and don't know how to relate to other people
[18:44] You: I agree Symm.. people can also turn things in sl that are relatively small into big issues and then hurt other people.
[18:45] Vivian Dharnen nods big time
[18:45] Symmetry Munro: I've heard of some really, really awful things happen to people, like stalking, and having your avatar's picture used for pornographic purposes
[18:45] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bad things make news.
[18:45] Symmetry Munro: Yes..
[18:45] Skye Lewellen: very true
[18:46] Symmetry Munro: But the particulars in this case...one was a friend and the other an acquaintance
[18:46] You: Yeah, the worst thing that has happened to me is to be thrown out of a group because people didn't agree with my views...
[18:46] Symmetry Munro: I'm not a spring chicken, but I was surprised that this happened
[18:46] You: and sometimes I get judged for being a male in a female avatar
[18:46] GoSpeed Racer: some people have renegged on business deals and then threaten to sue you if you talk about it publicly
[18:46] Azareth Kohime: o_O"
[18:47] You: I think when you come down to it... SL is some strange middle ground between fantasy and reality...
[18:47] Symmetry Munro: Yes, when I was a male avie, some friends reacted negatively to my gender
[18:47] You: some of it is pure fantasy but more of it real than is fantasy I think
[18:47] Symmetry Munro: I even had a male friend make a pass at me...he had never made overtures to me in my female form...
[18:47] Symmetry Munro: Yes, i think that's it
[18:47] You: but some people make the mistake of taking all of it seriously and making drama and some people make the mistake of thinking nothing they do here matters
[18:48] Symmetry Munro: That is true too
[18:48] You: and those people end up hurting other people
[18:48] GoSpeed Racer: I was recently slammmed on the comment section of a popular blog for participating in the Miss SL Ebony Contest. They said only RL blacks should participate
[18:48] Symmetry Munro: But how can you tell in SL?
[18:48] GoSpeed Racer: you can't
[18:49] You: well, I think part of the cool thing about sl is that you can play with your identity...
[18:49] Azareth Kohime: why dose it matter? o_O"
[18:49] You: but you can be anything you want on the outside. you are still YOU inside...
[18:49] Skye Lewellen: and would it really be any different if people are all the same?
[18:49] You: and that is fascinating
[18:49] Symmetry Munro: We know that...but its an elusive principle for some people
[18:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: Some people aren't happy unless they are making judgments. It makes them feel superior.
[18:50] You: It really brings us all to being purely ourselves, there's no judgment based on outer appearances that can't be changed..
[18:50] Jua Luminos: sl is very creative
[18:50] You: because create our appearance
[18:50] Jua Luminos: being some one different is part of creativity
[18:50] Lludmila Mirrikh: Who else has met anyone from SL in RL?
[18:50] You: because we create our appearance so our appearance is a construct rather than something immutable
[18:51] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, I like the mutability.
[18:51] Jua Luminos: and the tast is our rl mind
[18:51] Skye Lewellen: I have! he's one of my best friends now!
[18:51] Symmetry Munro: I do too :o] I don't think I look the same two days in succession :o]
[18:51] You: Skye has met the famous Heath Elvehem in rl!
[18:51] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've met two so far. Grizzy and Lorraine.[18:51] Azareth Kohime: I've never meet anyone from SL in RL
[18:51] Skye Lewellen: lol he's played at my house (for a show in sl lol)
[18:51] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh!
[18:51] Symmetry Munro: I've met some of the Wheel of Time people I RP with, and it has enhanced the SL relationships.I actually appeared in RL in a costume contest as my SL avatar
[18:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: Now there's an idea.
[18:52] You: I think sl and rl are best if they compliment each other...
[18:52] Symmetry Munro: Which is sort of funny....considering the differences between the way of look in RL and SL
[18:52] Skye Lewellen: I have only met a few people in RL that worried me... but they were not my SL friends to begin with
[18:52] You: It would be very very ugly if I dressed up as my avatar. (:
[18:52] Jua Luminos: i agree
[18:52] Symmetry Munro: I am essentially the same person :o]
[18:53] Jua Luminos: i agree to the complement of sl and rl
[18:53] Symmetry Munro: I think that my SL persona has helped me to be a bit more flamboyant in RL
[18:53] You: I am the same other than physical appearance.. and I'm a lot more outgoing here
[18:53] Lludmila Mirrikh: You're hostess - you have to be more outgoing.
[18:53] You: When Llud and I met in rl, it was a little weird at first.. but then by the end it became more comfortable
[18:54] Skye Lewellen: I have been stalked in sl and had my avatar copied an put up fro sale - and been through a ton in SL but it has all helped me grow in RL
[18:54] Lludmila Mirrikh: And Bob had to pry us apart.
[18:54] Symmetry Munro: Or a host..I get tripped up in the gender thing, verbally, sometimes
[18:54] You: (:
[18:54] Symmetry Munro: But I'm comfortable with it
[18:54] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bob and I had dinner in London with Lorraine and we all had a great time.
[18:54] Natalina DeVinna: avatar for sale ? I have neve heard about it
[18:54] Jua Luminos: skye i had my profile copied and put in 4 bots
[18:55] Azareth Kohime: o_O"
[18:55] Symmetry Munro: Egad!
[18:55] Lludmila Mirrikh: Ummm, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
[18:55] You: thankfully no one has copied me yet
[18:55] Skye Lewellen: ewww now that's interesting what did you do?
[18:55] Jua Luminos: i reported the case
[18:56] LaDonna Upshaw is Offline
[18:56] Skye Lewellen: cool !
[18:56] Skye Lewellen: yes it was sold as a shape and skin
[18:56] You: I also have found that sl has made me more accepting of people...
[18:56] Symmetry Munro: Is it a problem that there is no real "law enforcement" in SL?
[18:56] You: cause I've become close friends with people here that I probably wouldn't have been friends with in rl.
[18:56] Natalina DeVinna: but I belive its not transfer the skin and shapes...how you may sell it?
[18:56] Lludmila Mirrikh: SL is the great equalizer.
[18:57] You: Yes, it is a problem Symm... especially if you fall into a group that griefers tend to be prejudiced against
[18:57] You: I've noticed that griefers particularly like to harrass furries, gays, and Christians
[18:57] Skye Lewellen: what a combination!
[18:58] Lludmila Mirrikh: There's a broad spectrum.
[18:58] Symmetry Munro: I do know a gay, furry Christian... :o]
[18:58] You: when I get griefed it is usually at a religious themed event
[18:58] Natalina DeVinna: may be they are more sencetive?
[18:58] You: which it is not
[18:59] Skye Lewellen: maybe it's that they are considered non-pc?
[18:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: See, I haven't run into anything like that.
[18:59] Symmetry Munro: I remember meeting with a group of Anglicans about a griefer and accidentally hitting the command to take off all my clothes :o] I was very embarrassed
[18:59] You: no, that is making it the fault of the victim
[18:59] Symmetry Munro: The whole concept of nudity here is, well, rather academic...
[18:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: Boy, that takes talent, Symm. I'm still working on how you did that.
[19:01] You: I do feel like oen problem with SL is that people don't know how to act yet
[19:01] Symmetry Munro: What do you mean?
[19:02] You: some people think that because it looks like a game... that you can do anything. that people don't deserve privacy
[19:02] GoSpeed Racer: no norms, standards of behaviour or conduct
[19:02] You: that you don't have to have manners
[19:02] You: yeah, what Go said
[19:02] Skye Lewellen: true they have to be posted!
[19:02] Symmetry Munro: Do you think that some of these problems are caused by underage people sneaking onto the adult sim?
[19:02] GoSpeed Racer: sadly not
[19:03] Lludmila Mirrikh: Plenty of immature adults.
[19:03] GoSpeed Racer: I've seen 52 year old men go beserk like teenagers
[19:03] Lludmila Mirrikh raises own hand.
[19:03] Symmetry Munro: True...there is no shortagle of immature adult
[19:03] You: maybe... but also if you walk into in a place of business in rl, there are things you know you can't do because you'd get kicked out of the store or arrested .
[19:03] You: but here there's not that sense of "I can't do that"
[19:03] Lludmila Mirrikh: Or at least "I can't do that here."
[19:03] You: yeah
[19:03] Skye Lewellen: i think if you're here long enough that does happen
[19:04] You: and I also have seen people who think that just because they are on a Mature sim that means they can have sex in public
[19:04] Symmetry Munro: I am amazed at the amount of money I spend in SL, and I'm spending more every month (mor or less)
[19:04] You: and "mature" doesn't mean the entire sim is one big orgy
[19:04] Jua Luminos: it is easy to spend money here
[19:05] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, that "mature" thing is misleading.
[19:05] You: there should still be some sense of keeping that kind of thing where it belongs because the whole world doesn't really want need to see your fetishes on parade.
[19:05] Symmetry Munro: True
[19:05] Symmetry Munro: But there is a whole side to SL that most of us don't see because we aren't looking for it...at least I'm not
[19:06] Symmetry Munro: I was surprised when a friend told me she had worked in an SL "brothel"
[19:06] Symmetry Munro: Because the money was good
[19:06] Arilynn Karu: Lol, I was asked to be a sex escort
[19:06] Symmetry Munro: There are a lot of sims and enterprises that are a bit below the radar
[19:06] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, well, they can stay there.
[19:06] Symmetry Munro: LOL
[19:06] Skye Lewellen: many of the sl n00bs seem to think that's why sl is here
[19:07] You: yeah, I think for people to take sl seriously and see it for what it is rather than what the media portrays it as...
[19:07] Symmetry Munro: True
[19:07] Arilynn Karu: That's what I like about SL - there is no "radar" except for the ability to not see "mature" sights. You can chose your own environments
[19:07] You: there needs to be some sort of standard of behavior beyond just what the sim owner will and will not tolerate
[19:07] Arilynn Karu: Why? Why not just allow the sim owner to dictate it?
[19:07] Skye Lewellen: like any society it will form one - it already is a bit
[19:08] You: well, the sim owner is not always around...
[19:08] Symmetry Munro: You're awful quiet Glorfindel!
[19:08] You: and like I said "Mature" doesn't mean "you are free to lead your slave around by nipple clamps at any time you like"
[19:08] Glorfindel Arrow: hmmm
[19:08] Lludmila Mirrikh: No, they need to do that in Nipple Clamp Land.
[19:08] Skye Lewellen: we see surprisingly little of that stuff anymore
[19:08] You: yeah, that's my point... There is a time and place for everything
[19:09] Skye Lewellen: it used to be much more like the wild west
[19:09] Arilynn Karu: I see a fair amount of slaves and master/mistress, but very few overt displays. People are usually more discrete. The others are the exception I think
[19:09] You: I think people should have the freedom to do it, despite the fact that I don't personally like it
[19:09] You: but I also think like in rl, it shouldn't be displayed in public
[19:09] Symmetry Munro: Not in your sim :o]
[19:09] Arilynn Karu: But what is "public" in SL?
[19:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: There is no privacy in SL.
[19:09] You: Stores.. stores are public
[19:10] You: stores, parks... concert halls...
[19:10] Skye Lewellen: privacy in sl is true illusion
[19:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: It's in the mind of the beholder.
[19:10] You: the street outside of shops
[19:10] You: public
[19:10] Skye Lewellen: that's the ONLY privacy yes:)
[19:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: Gosh, Grizzy - where DO you go?!
[19:10] You: If you are in a club or store that caters to that sort of thing that's one thing
[19:11] Glorfindel Arrow: a lot of places i go there isn't anyone else around....Public? or private?
[19:11] You: but if you'e in a mainstream dress shop or ssomething I feel like you should be discreet
[19:11] You: I hope that makes sense.. and I'm not just babbling
[19:12] Skye Lewellen: how discreet can be expected when the poseballs are the product?
[19:12] Symmetry Munro: I find the opportunities for roleplay here to be fascinating...that's something I've been involved with the past three months
[19:12] You: I guess to me a good analogy would be... what if the internet had ads for porn sites on amazon.com or yahoo.com.
[19:12] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'm beginning to suspect that I'm not hanging out in enough places.
[19:13] Skye Lewellen laughs
[19:13] You: I don't see it very often, Llud.. but it is there
[19:13] You: but we can move onto a different topic since Symm seems to be changing the subject. (: I have never done any type of RP in sl, Symm so tell us about it
[19:15] Symmetry Munro: I RP as a preacher in a Western sim, and I've married folks...its very rewarding...and I'm an Innkeeper in Tar Valon, a fantasy sim
[19:15] Vivian Dharnen: I have been in RP sim over 10 months now Have seen many ups and downs for the SIM itself and myself
[19:15] Glorfindel Arrow: a place or two I looked into had so much backstory to study so you could do the role play, I gave up
[19:16] Symmetry Munro: That can be a problem...
[19:16] Vivian Dharnen: like somebody said, I am still trying to find the balance of "fantasy and reality"
[19:16] Twisted Surface: hehe
[19:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'm still trying to find the balance between SL and House Cleaning.
[19:17] Vivian Dharnen: it is rewarding in someway, as you find people who have the same interest
[19:17] Symmetry Munro: LOL...true Llud!
[19:17] You: I just never had a desire to do it
[19:17] Twisted Surface: I'm inclined to lean more towards that Vivian said ;D
[19:17] You: It is hard for me to not be myself I'd be a terrible actor
[19:17] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh.
[19:18] Vivian Dharnen: but when you get to know people there, you work together how to run sim better
[19:18] Glorfindel Arrow: it's good to find people with a common intrest, even if it's not role play
[19:18] Vivian Dharnen: that is another enriching experience
[19:18] Lludmila Mirrikh: Whenever I feel like giving up on SL, I think of the friends I've made and how much I'd miss them.
[19:19] Vivian Dharnen: fantasy part is.... when you develop a strong tie emotionally
[19:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: I consider them to be real.
[19:19] You: I only tink about giving up when something really bad happens to me
[19:19] Vivian Dharnen: how do you find the balance? I am struggling
[19:19] Twisted Surface: of time?
[19:19] You: which hasn't happened in a long time
[19:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: Faugh, bad things happen to me in RL.
[19:20] Vivian Dharnen: emotional involvement
[19:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: People can hurt me just as easily here (if not more so for some reason) than they can in RL.
[19:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: as they can
[19:21] Jua Luminos: our emotions are the same in sl or rl
[19:21] You: yeah, they are.
[19:21] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah.
[19:21] You: getting your feelings hurt here hurts just as much as in rl
[19:22] Jua Luminos: yes
[19:22] Symmetry Munro: I am surprised at how fervent some of the SL marriages are that I encounter. I am rare in that my SL and RL partners ar the same
[19:22] Glorfindel Arrow: oh I used to get angry a lot, but never brought it up in chat...learned to just let it go...
[19:22] Lludmila Mirrikh: I blog my anger.
[19:22] Symmetry Munro: Some people have an SL marriage and RL marriage with different people. This puzzles me
[19:22] Vivian Dharnen looks down
[19:23] Symmetry Munro: I can't imagine you being mad at anyone, Llud! I am sorry if I have offended anyone with my comments
[19:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: Ah, that's where the fantasy comes in, Symm. Hee!
[19:23] You: Yeah, but I'm still not sure that that isn't cheating
[19:23] Symmetry Munro: I don't know...it just isn't something I can do. There is an SL songwriter who has an interesting song about SL marriages :o]
[19:24] Jua Luminos: it would depend on the agreement the partners have
[19:24] Arilynn Karu: I agree, Jua
[19:24] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've seen some strange situations ... I couldn't deal with it personally and do what I can to discourage SL relationships.
[19:25] Glorfindel Arrow: but SL is a time eater, and that time not spent with the RL partner.....
[19:25] You: yeah, I think Glor has a valid point especially if you have kids in rl
[19:25] Jua Luminos: at first one spends a lot of time on it because it is new
[19:26] Symmetry Munro: I joined with the idea that I could spend time with my son here in SL, but he disdains SL
[19:26] Glorfindel Arrow: oh I have spent a lot of time on line instead of doing chores and getting things together....lol
[19:26] You: Yeah, I have a problem telling anyone in rl about sl because most people don't get it. I wish I could share
[19:27] Symmetry Munro: True
[19:27] You: but most people just look at me like I'm weird
[19:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, I bore people to tears with SL.
[19:27] Jua Luminos: people have to be in sl to understand sl i think
[19:27] Symmetry Munro: And you have to be something of a technogeek to do the basic SL stuff
[19:27] Jua Luminos: yes
[19:27] Symmetry Munro: Really
[19:28] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, I had never done chat before and it took me a long time to get used to it, still don't do it well
[19:28] You: I told my friend about it and he said "but I don't want to have sex with cartoon squirrels"
[19:28] Symmetry Munro: LOL
[19:28] Glorfindel Arrow: Sl has it's own 'culture' or I call it a 'seperate reality'
[19:28] You: In some ways yes it does. we have our own words
[19:29] Jua Luminos: i find it very creative
[19:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: I love words.
[19:29] You: language and our own currency
[19:29] Glorfindel Arrow: and things have a certain 'look' to them
[19:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: An SL friend described SL as an interactive graphic novel.
[19:29] Symmetry Munro: And people dance all the time... spontaneously
[19:29] Glorfindel Arrow: heheehh
[19:30] Symmetry Munro: And spel funny
[19:30] Glorfindel Arrow: I use a lot of words in RL I can't spell ...lolol
[19:31] Jua Luminos: no cleaning in sl
[19:31] Lludmila Mirrikh: No dust!
[19:31] Symmetry Munro: And no dishes!!!!
[19:31] Lludmila Mirrikh: YAY! (yay!)
[19:31] Symmetry Munro: No ring around the tub!!!
[19:31] Jua Luminos: except the inventory it gets messy
[19:31] Glorfindel Arrow: I can crash my boat and just re-rezz a new one hehe
[19:32] Lludmila Mirrikh: No dying.
[19:32] Symmetry Munro: And no laundry!!!
[19:32] Symmetry Munro: And you can fly!!!
[19:32] You: sometimes I skydive without a parachute
[19:32] Symmetry Munro: And you can float
[19:32] Cache Forster: WooT
[19:32] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah, TP'ing around is cool
[19:33] Lludmila Mirrikh: And crashing.
[19:33] Glorfindel Arrow: if you end some place you don't like, zoom off you go
[19:33] You: and lots of places you can visit that do not exist in rl or that aren't easy to visit in rl
[19:33] Symmetry Munro: That is true
[19:33] Lludmila Mirrikh: Or would be hard to visit (snap)
[19:33] You: I loved seeing the sistine chapel in sl
[19:33] Lludmila Mirrikh: I was just thinking of the sistine!
[19:33] Jua Luminos: sl is good to share cultures
[19:34] Lludmila Mirrikh: And the muscle development (Lludmila looks crookedly at Symm).
[19:34] Jua Luminos: never been to the sistine.
[19:34] Symmetry Munro: I admit that I am a bit impaired in RL...
[19:34] Symmetry Munro: I enjoy being able to do things physically easier than I can in RL
[19:35] You: I can't dance at all in rl
[19:35] Lludmila Mirrikh: We need to test that, Grizz.
[19:35] Symmetry Munro: I've started dancing like my SL avatar in RL :o]
[19:35] You: when I dance I fall over myself
[19:35] Lludmila Mirrikh used to be a tap dancer.
[19:36] You: but really the best thing about sl is the friends
[19:36] Lludmila Mirrikh: YAY! (yay!)
[19:36] Lludmila Mirrikh: friends!
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: APPLAUSE!!!!
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: YAY! (yay!)
[19:37] Jua Luminos: the friends are good in both worlds
[19:37] You: I hope I can meet more sl people in rl
[19:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: I can't relate to many people where I live in RL.
[19:37] Symmetry Munro: Well I certainly do...since I work at home and don't leave the house except every now and then...SL is our social outlet
[19:37] Jua Luminos: my rl friends dont understand sl
[19:37] Cache Forster: there really is a Sistine Chapel...."The Second Life Outpost of Vassar College and home of the Sistine Chapel Re-creation"
[19:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, must see. The Sistine Chapel is fabulous.
[19:38] You: and in rl you can't fly up and look at the ceiling
[19:38] Cache Forster: to understand SL you must be able to imagine the unimaginable
[19:39] Glorfindel Arrow: I've heard a lot of people say they can't relate to people where they live, so SL is a social outlet for them....
[19:39] Symmetry Munro: The live music is another good thing...I've really enjoyed myself and I sing in RL :o]
[19:39] You: yeah, my rl friend that I told about sl, I was hoping would have his band come and play here so he could get more fans
[19:40] Jua Luminos: it is cool that someone can play music in rl and sl at the same time
[19:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: SL was a big help to me when I needed a Really Good Escape from RL.
[19:40] You: I've been to concerts here that were going on in both a rl place and in sl
[19:40] You: yeah, sl is good for that too
[19:41] Skye Lewellen: yes me too and it helped me fix rl too
[19:41] Symmetry Munro: And the shopping...oo-la-la And the Freebies! I like the quote "it's like paperdolls for adults"
[19:41] Skye Lewellen: and the Building!!
[19:41] Symmetry Munro: Freebies are great!
[19:41] Symmetry Munro: My resolution for this year is to learn more about building I admire builders I now, like LaDonna, who can whip up virtually anything
[19:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yah, I really need to pony up and actually have Lindens.
[19:42] You: yeah, its amazing what people can build
[19:42] Skye Lewellen: lol and i need to pony up and make rl better :)
[19:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: It's amazing what people can accidentally delete.
[19:44] You: I guess the longer amount of time I spend here the more amazing it becomes
[19:44] Skye Lewellen: i'm kinda bored with it right now
[19:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: Not enough time in the day to do everything I want here.
[19:44] Jua Luminos: the technical development is amazing
[19:44] Skye Lewellen: just my friends interest me
[19:44] Jua Luminos: sl becomes more and more real
[19:45] You: I think I'd be bored with it if I didn't have this place.
[19:45] Skye Lewellen: lol i need a HUGE piece of land to make something big :)
[19:45] Glorfindel Arrow: I'm amazed that it works as well as it does....even with the problems
[19:45] You: me too.. I'm glad I don't work for Linden Lab
[19:46] Cache Forster: ya know Grizz...you are kinda my role model...except without the skirt...of coures:)
[19:46] Lludmila Mirrikh: I often think I should be more constructive here, and not just a leech on the system, but I figure it's like seeing things from someone else's point of view in RL ... like the homeless people in our library.
[19:46] Vivian Dharnen: lol
[19:46] You: wow,thanks... I've been told that a couple of times in sl.. but I don't really feel comfortable being called a role model
[19:47] Vivian Dharnen: Yes, I think you are fantastic, Grizzy
[19:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: hee!
[19:47] Skye Lewellen: love ya Grizzy! you've been a fabulous friend:)
[19:47] You: thanks Vivien... I'm really not used to the tremendous popularity
[19:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: You have been very kind.
[19:48] Glorfindel Arrow: yes, don't go changin'....heheheheh
[19:48] You: that's another thing.. SL has helped my self-esteem quite a bit
[19:48] Vivian Dharnen: and sl relationships give me smiles too
[19:49] You: Llud going back to what you said about leeching... I think as long as you are add something to events when you go to them you aren't leeching though I have heartaches too sometimes
[19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: I can't tell if my SL friends are alcoholics. that's a plus.
[19:49] You: like I really appreciate all the pictures you take.. and events are more fun when you come to them
[19:49] Skye Lewellen: LOL Llud
[19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh gets all misty-eyed.
[19:51] You: I don't know that I have much more to say about this topic unless y'all do
[19:51] Lludmila Mirrikh still wiping away tears.
[19:52] Jua Luminos: it is interesting to hear the view of others in here
[19:52] Skye Lewellen: I'm happy for SL - i have made sooo many mistakes here that i am sooo glad i didn't make in RL!!
[19:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: There you go, SL is like a Draft for RL.
[19:52] Lludmila Mirrikh: You can erase.

If Second Life is a game, then I win.

2008-09-14T15:21:16Z

I haven't had a lot of time to be in SL over the past couple of days, but its been on my mind a lot for a couple of reasons:

First of all, on Friday I had my first real life meeting with anyone from SL. If you come to Grizzy's Cafe with any regularity, I'm sure you know Lludmila Murrikh who always brings a lot of fun to my events and takes great pictures of our events and posts them in the Grizzy's Cafe flickr group. Her husband is a very talented guitarist who was playing in my city Friday night. I went to the show and was able to meet both of them. It was strange to meet someone when before, we had only known each other as avatars, but I found after the initial strange feelings, it was just like meeting an old friend.

My philosophy has always been "real life comes first" and I still think that is healthy, but Friday night I realized that a friendship is a friendship. Just because in SL we interact in buildings and locations that do not actually exist as wildly inaccurate (in most cases, mine especially) cartoon representations, does not make our friendships in world any less valid or meaningful. The real beauty of SL is that it strips away the distance between us both in terms of geography and preconceived notions we may have based on appearance (since we create our own appearances). I realized just what a great blessing from God all the people that I know from SL have been to me and I hope I can meet as many of you as possible in the future. You know where I live and if you're ever in the area please let me know. I'll do the same.

Yesterday I went to a college football game in rl and I was away from my computer most of the day. However throughout the day, my mind turned towards my SL friends who live in the Houston area, hoping that they would weather the storm safely and return to us soon. My oldest and best friend in SL is Skye Lewellen who lives in Houston and Don Aster who owns the sim where Grizzy's Cafe is lives slightly north of Houston. My thoughts were with them all day. I have heard from Skye and she is ok and her home is undamaged, but now she must live 2 weeks with no electricity and 2 girls under 10 years old. My heart is with her and the difficulty she will have. I wish there was a way I could get in contact with her. We have yet to hear from Don since the storm but my heart is with him too. Please if you are someone who prays, pray for both of them.

It was a hot day where I live yesterday and when I got home I was drenched with sweat, tired and really just wanted a shower and a cold drink. However the first thing I did was go to the computer to check on my friends in SL. It warmed my heart to see all the concern that everyone had for Skye and Don after I sent out a notice to the Grizzy's Cafe group. In SL, we are a community. It is a strange community, like none that has ever been before, but we are a community and that is what's important.

So anyway, I just wanted you all to know that I thank God for you all and the fact that we can spend time together in this virtual world. Please if you are ever in my neck of the woods let me know.

New Grizzy's Cafe logo!

2008-06-29T19:32:59Z

Thesis: religion in sl

2008-06-01T20:53:47Z

Lenore Lemmon a rl college student recently wrote her thesis on religion in sl.
I was interviewed and my comments are included in her thesis. If
anyone is interested in reading it, it is available here:

http://www.blotts.org/thesis.pdf

Race/gender discussion day 8

2008-05-28T11:41:12Z

Here is the transcript of the final session of the race/gender experiment, edited for readability mostly:

[18:34] You: So, I am not going to share my week... because I've been doing so on the blog. So if you haven't already... you can see what my week was like at http://grizzygriswold.livejournal.com. Now I am going to open the floor to volunteers who want to share their experiences... so one at a time please share. your feelings. Who would like to go first?
[18:35] Edward Bournemouth: eh, I'll go. My stint as Jamaican Edward was pretty uneventful except for one thing. I was telling people at my set about it yesterday... went to see my landlord on SL to get a bigger house, and when she TPed me so I could look at some models, her reaction was "Wow, aren't you beautiful" turns out she may be a redhead in SL but she's a black gal in RL :) so a discussion ensued about the experiment. Discussion was on differences in body build
[18:38] Myn Delling: I got involved it it, too.
[18:38] Edward Bournemouth: between Asian types, African/black types and Caucasian types but all in all, that aside, the most outlandish experience I had was looking at myself pushing a cart at Depoz, my dreads flying in the wind behind me. I found that I can't really connect to this avatar though... he's so different from what I am which is interesting because I can relate to my female avie... cause I gave her a lot of my character and tastes but this one, interestingly, had a harder time pouring myself into it
[18:41] Myn Delling: I'll spin off from that, unless someone else wants to go next.
[18:41] You: I have a bit of the same experience. Islam is foreign to me.. ok, go ahead, Myn
[18:41] Myn Delling: The only outsides comments I got where from our landlord and people who loved my fro! LOL
[18:41] You: I love the fro too.
[18:42] Myn Delling: I DJ'd my usual gigs at Bubblegum, did a guest spot in a couple places. I was the only black ava, but no one seemed to comment or treat me any different than normal.
[18:42] You: same for me.. and I was the only muslim av everywhere I went. (:
[18:43] Myn Delling: The only real "change" has been in RL...during the convo with our landlord, I asked why all the black shapes seem to have huge rear ends. She said that a lot of black women are built that way. I never really noticed... I assumed it was some twisted SL stereotype.... so now Ive noticed that I really am looking at how people in RL are built Not judging or gawking, but really noticing differences.
[18:44] Michelle Thurston: It's basically an SL expression of an RL stereotype. The Noble Bootay.
[18:44] Myn Delling: I'll be glad to have my shape back, but I think my coloring will be somewhere between this and my previous. I LIKE being a bit darker!
[18:45] You: There is a rally to get me to keep this skin right now.. lol Who wants to go next?
[18:45] Franja Russell: May I go next? Mine is short.
[18:45] You: sure
[18:45] Franja Russell: (1) I was out of town four of the seven days and have spent two other days helping friends. (2) I made my av overweight. (3) Where I did go, I was completely ignored. (4) That's it.
[18:46] Czari Zenovka: Did you go to the same places you usually go, Franja or different ones?
[18:46] Myn Delling: ignored as in no one talked to you? or as in treated no differently than usual?
[18:46] Caoilin Galthie: franja, do you usually get more attention?
[18:46] Revenelliri Westland: Franja... did you behave different. LIke wait to see if people talk to you when normally you would talk to folks first?
[18:47] Franja Russell: Oh....Looking at myself in this av shape made me more conscious of my own weight.
[18:47] You: I know I found it harder to talk to people looking like this.. I was more shy than usual in this av.
[18:47] Michelle Thurston: Yeah, being more or less ignored is par for the course
[18:47] Franja Russell: When I was on, I went where I usually go, but that's not extensive because I'm up to my neck with the Portal Library.
[18:48] Michelle Thurston: That's interesting you say that, there was a study of that exact thing, how your av makes you act as a followup. Grizzy did you post that as part of this? I forget where I found the article, but I think it was in-world somewhere
[18:48] You: No, I didn't post that. I have a male av that looks like me in rl and I am more shy in that than I am in my Grizzy Griswold persona as well
[18:49] Revenelliri Westland: maybe because in RL your more shy? So you behave more like your everyday self???
[18:49] You: yep, I think that's it but spending time in this av
[18:49] Salamander Clary: Did you mean this article? http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1739601,00.html?cnn=yes
[18:49] You: gives me more confidence in rl. I get less shy in sl the more time I spend here but I'm always a bit ahead of where I am in rl as this av.
[18:50] Michelle Thurston: yeah, that one
[18:50] Revenelliri Westland has been known to talk to strangers in grocery store lines etc in RL with frequency
[18:50] Skye Lewellen: can i go next? sorry but prayers are coming up soon
[18:50] You: sure Skye go ahead.
[18:51] Skye Lewellen: i found that i was treated as normal by everyone except vampires i was suddenly someone they talked to although i did find that n00b males stayed clear oif me:) i also noticed that i did this before - kind of but in RL. I had a bad encounter with a man at work so I decided to go tough and i started dressing hardcore ( ie punk/metal) so I would be left alone - it seems to work everywhere:)
[18:53] Edward Bournemouth: I get that a lot with my female avie... cause she's punk... noob guys are afraid of her
[18:53] Skye Lewellen: yep - not being a guy i don't understand that very well:)
[18:53] Revenelliri Westland: really? I'd think they'd be interested
[18:54] Edward Bournemouth: a lot of guys don't seem to do well with women they perceive as potentially more powerful than themselves
[18:54] Skye Lewellen: that's about it - i do like this avie - she's not going to disappear :)
[18:54] Flippant Jibilla: I think it's more a matter of being able to predict the conversation...avatars go a long way to doing that
[18:54] Michelle Thurston: Edward: As the reason why males are put of by RL males playing SL females?
[18:55] Franja Russell: I've never understood the desire for power. The maneuvering it takes to accomplish it is tiresome and unending.
[18:55] You: I kind of like mine too.. I think that I will find some future use for my outfits
[18:55] Edward Bournemouth: Michelle, that's another thing completely
[18:55] Michelle Thurston: Yeah, was going to say...it's not a power issue :P
[18:55] Edward Bournemouth: there's that belief that if you play a gal you must be gay
[18:55] Myn Delling: I'm really grown fond of this ava... well, minus the exaggerated shape.
[18:56] Grizzy Griswold is definitely not gay
[18:56] Edward Bournemouth is definitely not either
[18:56] You: My av is great eye candy.
[18:56] Salamander Clary: Does it go the other way too?
[18:56] You: beautifies my sl experience
[18:56] Michelle Thurston: If their intentions are amorous, or at least sexual, they don't want to be concerned that THEY are gay
[18:56] Franja Russell: Hmmmm....
[18:56] Edward Bournemouth: true
[18:56] Salamander Clary: Are girls who have male avatars suspected of being lesbian, or is that another one of those fun double standards?
[18:57] You: that I dunno.
[18:57] Myn Delling: Anyone who finds out that I have a male alt assume that it's my "peace and quiet" avatar
[18:57] Franja Russell: I don't know. What I do know is that I couldn't pull it off if I tried to be a male av.
[18:57] Michelle Thurston: That's probably an order of magnitude less common, I doubt they think of it that much
[18:57] Revenelliri Westland: I have to say that I had a concern about that... that if people found out I was a girl in a male avatar that they would wonder about my sexual identity
[18:57] Myn Delling: (and I suck at being a guy)
[18:57] Revenelliri Westland: not concern I guess so much as just wondered about it
[18:57] Skye Lewellen: not as far as I know - i have a male av and my friends just think he's a handy safe dance partner:)
[18:57] Sean Gorham: It's a lot like porn, I suspect. A guy watches two girls kissing - that's hot. A guy watches two guys kissing - ewwww. *eyerolls*
[18:57] Salamander Clary: That's not something I ever thought about this week.
[18:58] You: I used to worry what people would think of my preferences because I use a female av but I stopped caring long ago.
[18:58] Arundel Dragonash: but what about girls watching two guys kissing or two girls?
[18:58] Edward Bournemouth: with my female avie, I don't think it's that I'm a male playing a female (cause not many people know) but rather the fact that I've made it clear in her demeanor that she's in charge and she can be mean
[18:58] You: If they think that, that's they're problem
[18:58] Sean Gorham: Totally different, Arundel. At the root is, I think, a fear of latent homosexuality.
[18:59] Pheriwinkle Rejkus: I think it would really be intersting if this experiment were run with people playing gay... I've only been in SL two weeks, and I have never heard so much hate speech before...even in real life years ago, say, in high school.
[18:59] Salamander Clary: Funny, Grizzy, that's not something I ever thought about either - your sexual preferences as related to your avatar. It never occurred to me until this conversation.
[18:59] You: Who wants to go next?
[18:59] Czari Zenovka: Storm does
[19:00] You: ok, well, he has the floor.
[19:01] StormCrow Dagger: i'd done the Furry avatar thing once before, shortly after I first joined SL a year ago. Some of the first people i met online were furry, and it seemed a neat way to avoid the trouble of coming up with a decent shape and skin :) but i hadn't worn a furry AV in a while. I'd become quite comfortable in my human AV, so when Czari decided to try out being furry for this experiment, i decided to join her and see how different it felt this time around
[19:04] You: Was it different?
[19:04] Revenelliri Westland: was it easier to go around as a couple?
[19:05] StormCrow Dagger: it felt a bit different, since i had become comfortable with my human form, it seemed a little strange being out of it again, but i also have a Dragon avatar and a few novelty ones, so it wasn't all that strange. It certainly felt a lot more normal being out as a couple in similar shapes compared to one of us being human and the other not however :) I didn't really experience much of a difference in treatment, except for one comment when we first teleported into the infohub on thursday night.
[19:07] You: ok next?
[19:08] Salamander Clary: I'll go
[19:08] Salamander Clary: Mostly nothing interesting happened at all. I got a lot of compliments from my friends on my cute avatar. And one of my male friends wanted to know where I'd gotten the hair. The more interesting thing I guess was how it made me feel.
I noticed the other male avatars a lot more - my shape is a kind of geeky guy, not the big musclebound types you usually see here
[19:09] You: yeah, I've found that to be the case... Most people are having more of an internal thing that how they were treated outwardly.. That was certainly the case for me.
[19:10] Silverz Mornington: Do you think that because everyone knows avatars can be anyone (any gender) that there is less of a "difference" in treatment in 2nd life than in 1st life?
[19:10] Czari Zenovka: Not everyone likes the big musclebound guys ;)
[19:10] Edward Bournemouth: good question!
[19:10] You: dunno, Silverz.. that's an interesting question though.
[19:10] Arundel Dragonash: My question would be how does it compare to last year
[19:10] Czari Zenovka: Especially the ones with heads too small for their bodies...lol
[19:10] You: last year I merely wore black skin... and felt no different. This year was much more different
[19:11] Salamander Clary: So I spent a surprising amount of metal energy comparing my shape to the other guys around, and feeling pretty intimidated. mental, rather
[19:11] Arundel Dragonash: How does the predominence of internal feeling over outward actions, compare to last year
[19:11] Czari Zenovka: Just to clarify since I don't know you Salamander...you're female RL?
[19:12] Salamander Clary: Yes, I am female in RL and I usually play afemale avatar.
[19:12] You: for me it was all internal. I felt weird and out of place most of the week.
[19:12] Sira Asylum: biggest problem was finding clothes that didn't look odd, since I'm usually so PALE. This dress actually looks BETTER with this skin :-D
[19:13] Salamander Clary: Thanks, Czari! I have become very fond of this avatar and I'm just frustrated at how hard it is to find decent men's apparel (particularly hair and clothes).
[19:13] You: How many people kind of like their new look now? I know I do. I want to change back, but I like this.
[19:13] Caoilin Galthie: i dont
[19:14] Czari Zenovka: I've become fond of this AV
[19:14] Glorfindel Arrow: I like my new one, and not gonna change 'till next week maybe...
[19:17] You: Who wants to go next, assuming Sal is done?
[19:17] Salamander Clary: I'm done, and I have to head out
[19:17] Czari Zenovka: I'd love to hear about Arundel's experiences in the wheelchair if she chooses to share :)
[19:18] Arundel Dragonash: well, not really much difference except that I was ignored at ISTE headquarters, not even a docent came up to talk to me
[19:18] Czari Zenovka: What is ISTE?
[19:19] Arundel Dragonash: the problems were with subtle exclusions
[19:19] Caoilin Galthie: do you usually get paid attention to there?
[19:19] Arundel Dragonash: an Island dedicated to teachers and educators
[19:19] Arundel Dragonash: yes, almost always I would be asked by the docents if they could help me but there are problems with dancing
[19:20] Sira Asylum: because you're a woman in a wheelchair you were ignored?
[19:20] Arundel Dragonash: and you all know how I love to dance
[19:20] Czari Zenovka: That's amazing you would be ignored in a place of learning due to the wheelchair
[19:20] Arundel Dragonash: I don't know why, if the wheelchair was it, I just know that it was a striking difference in treatment
[19:21] Arundel Dragonash: and teleporting is a lot like travelling with a baby. You have to take the chair off, or you will loose the animation, then put it back on
[19:22] You: You know I'm not brave enough to try it, but there is a HUD called 2nd Disability and what it does...
[19:22] Arundel Dragonash: the chair stays like a grass skirt on your pelvis
[19:22] You: is makes your av have seizures and Tourettes and it also makes big blind spots on your screen
[19:22] Arundel Dragonash: swaying gracefully as you stand there
[19:23] You: that would be interesting for a future one of these events but I'm scared to try it. The Tourettes and seizures can get you banned from places. People think you are griefing
[19:23] Arundel Dragonash: maybe that can be your next group experiment!
[19:23] Czari Zenovka: There's a place in SL that gives the experience of what someone who is schizophrenic hears
[19:23] Franja Russell: Why would physical disabilities get someone baanned?
[19:23] You: but you have no control over it
[19:23] You: because they don't know what it is
[19:23] You: the Tourettes makes you just randomly cuss people out beyond your control
[19:24] Franja Russell: Oh, people think the av is a griefer?
[19:24] You: yeah
[19:24] Czari Zenovka: Do you recall the name of it? I haven't been there...just heard about it
[19:24] Sean Gorham: Virtual Hallucinations is the name, I think.
[19:24] Revenelliri Westland: So I'd like to share about an experience last night when Arundel is done
[19:24] You: Sure Rev
[19:24] Arundel Dragonash: I am done
[19:25] Revenelliri Westland: Well I was out of town most of the week so really only got to be a guy for about a day and a half. I may try it a little longer. Arundel and Cao think I can go dancing with them :) Anyway, I didn't know how different it would be because I had created my av with the blue skin and one for St. Patrick's day But I found I was more worried about getting it "right", and kind of trying to make him look okay, but not like the Triangle men like someone I'd want to talk to
[19:27] Arundel Dragonash: the Triangle men?
[19:27] Revenelliri Westland: The guys who are sooo buff that their shape is like a triangle. Anyway, so the creation was an interesting exercise... especially adjusting the "package" under Torso
[19:29] You: yeah, when I ws making my av the first time I was worried about making my boobs too big. (:
[19:29] Revenelliri Westland: So last night Cao and I went to Open Latte in Mill Pond And we were at a table talking. Earlier in the day I found myself being more shy than normal. Holding back to see if people would talk to me. With Cao I felt more like myself. As we chatted a guy came by that looked a bit like a biker with many tattoos on his arms a tad scary to me
[19:30] You: I was wondering... did anyone else find that they were more comfortable around friends that were also doing my experiment, than the ones that looked normal still? I kind of felt that way.
[19:30] Revenelliri Westland: but he just kind of stood there and wandered a bit. To me he looked lost or lonely. And being in a different av made me realize that in RL probably looks nothing like his Av. So I just started talking to the guy like I might in my female av and he started chatting back
[19:31] Sira Asylum: yes, I was much more comfortable around friends who were doing it too
[19:31] Franja Russell: It was odd to get together with friends and have to explain what we were doing and why I'd altered my av.
[19:31] Revenelliri Westland: Turns out he makes shoes in SL for women
[19:32] Revenelliri Westland: So the experience of being in a different Av, made me more open to someone else's Avatar
[19:32] Caoilin Galthie: i would like to follow on rev's comments
[19:32] You: I've been looking forward to yours, since we did the same thing
[19:32] Caoilin Galthie: i think i felt more inhibited with strangers this past week
[19:32] You: me too Caoilin
[19:33] Caoilin Galthie: i just felt strange, seeing this formless black shape all week. i almost didnt see myself at times!
[19:33] You: yeah, at least I had colors and I didn't have to cover my whole face
[19:33] Caoilin Galthie: but nonone really said anything to me
[19:33] Caoilin Galthie: yea, mine is more extreme i guess! only got asked once if i was a muslim
[19:34] You: I never got asked that I got asked if I was Indian and if I was a nun
[19:34] Caoilin Galthie: so it opened a discussion about hte experiement but when i was with rev last night, i was just watching "him" in action for a while but when i joined in the conversation, the guy we were talking with didnt seem to react at all but i did hang out at ahern by myself one evenign for an hour or two. usually someone will hit on me but not this time! but it was really interesing to watch rev in public in a male av
[19:37] Skye Lewellen: why?
[19:37] Caoilin Galthie: just curious to see if she acted any differently and how i would expect a man to act. she is much more outgoing than me, so it was fun to see her enjoying the experience! so that is all for me!
[19:39] You: ok, who wants to go next?
[19:40] Sira Asylum: I can go if noone else wants to. Not much to tell
[19:40] You: ok, Sira
[19:40] Sira Asylum: My biggest problem was finding clothes X-D A few times guys (black and white) complimented my behind *blink blink* Even though I didn't change the shape
[19:41] Sira Asylum: that hadn't happened much before. I brought this up at another Grizzy's meeting and someone (forgot who) brought up that it may be due to stereotypes about black female sexuality. It was uncomfortable.... Also I sometimes felt like I was misrepresenting myself. I started going to a few new places. It'll be a bit odd going back in my normal skin
[19:43] You: yeah I've been to a club a bunch of times but only as a Muslim woman but I plan to go back as my normal redhead self
[19:43] Revenelliri Westland: I felt like that with a newbie at the Cathedral, so I told him about the experiment and showed him my normal Av in case he comes back
[19:43] Sira Asylum: I hope no one is upset "I thought you were black!"
[19:43] Revenelliri Westland: I didn't want him to feel he'd been deceived
[19:43] Sira Asylum: someone friended me at one of them and I forgot to tell them! I got used to my look, which I didn't expect I feel just as pretty as I always do. Kind of wish I could do this experiment in RL
[19:44] Sean Gorham: I wouldn't worry too much about it, Sira. I've had experiences similar to that. If they react negatively to your regular look, they're probably not worth getting to know better.
[19:44] Sira Asylum: can't think of anything else. It was a nice week.
[19:44] You: Who wants to go next?
[19:45] Sira Asylum: maybe I feel like I'm lying, though
[19:45] Qaz Kirax: I can go, but I haven't got much to say. Instead of my regular male avatar I was going to be a regular looking female. After hearing everyone else I thought that would be too easy, so I went with the "alien" female instead. Unfortunately I was so busy this week I barely got to spend any time inworld But I did discover that shopping is a lot easier for women :). I've used this avatar before but only when I'm alone, or with one particular group of people. I haven't gone anywhere else or met too many other people yet
[19:49] Revenelliri Westland: Did you have fun shopping? did you buy or find a freebie somewhere?
[19:49] You: I have fun shopping for clothes for my av and I hate shopping in rl. I hate shopping for my male av too
[19:50] Qaz Kirax: I'll probably keep this avatar for another week or so. Not much else to say. If anything happens this week I might post some comments on Grizzy's blog
[19:51] You: Who next?
[19:51] Glorfindel Arrow: me?
[19:51] You: ok, you go Glor
[19:52] Glorfindel Arrow: I think I must have surprised/shocked some people who hadn't seen me in a while, but nobody said anything negative. But I was a bit apprehensive about going to my usual hangouts, I did feel self-conscious, but I mostly got over it. Wednesday a poetry group that had been inactive for a few months came back to life and called a meeting, I was kinda freaked out and stalled around, by the time I went they had broken up the meeting, so I didn't see any of the people I knew in the group.
[19:52] You: I feel bad for making you miss your poetry group. ):
[19:53] Sira Asylum: you didn't; he did ;-)
[19:53] Caoilin Galthie: do you think it was the gender or race difference or both?
[19:53] Glorfindel Arrow: oh it's mostly pretty bad stuff,...lol
[19:53] You: Vogon poetry?
[19:53] Revenelliri Westland: hahahaha
[19:53] Lludmila Mirrikh: Any roses are red poems?
[19:53] Sean Gorham: That's not poetry, that's slow death. :P
[19:53] Revenelliri Westland had forgotten about Vogon poetry
[19:53] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah both I guess, just being different than they saw me before
[19:54] Caoilin Galthie: i was wondering if it would have been different if you had only changed one thing about yoruself
[19:54] Glorfindel Arrow: Nobody hit on me, I went around to a few places, but didn't strike up any conversations. Some French guys made some comments, but I was distracted and didn't save their chatter so I don't really know what they said. Some of the women I knew before seemed more inclined to talk to me, maybe to find out what the change was all about.
[19:54] Sean Gorham: I think you were pretty brave choosing a child av. I've had many different avs over the years and that's one place I haven't dared go yet, given the current social climate.
[19:54] Arundel Dragonash: female bonding!
[19:55] Lludmila Mirrikh: Thanks, Sean.
[19:55] You: if Glor is done, who is next? any takers? I think Llud may be all that is left
[19:56] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well - it wasn't all bad. I only had the one creepy comment. Ummm, I got a little more used to the avatar as the week went on ... And went to my usual places. Most women thought I looked cute. And wanted to hug me and then send me to brush my teeth. And even Our Fearless Leader at the Humanism group said it was a cute avatar. But, I felt really constricted. I felt my behavior would be scrutinized and judged by the public at large. So the "breast" comments were kept to a minimum. Innuendo was OUT.[19:59] You: yeah, I didn't even think of that.
[19:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: Except among people who would know me well and think it odd if I didn't comment.
[19:59] Sean Gorham: You felt you had to act somewhat according to your appearance.
[19:59] You: there are so many things I normally would say that I couldn't say as a child av
[19:59] Michelle Thurston: Were you accused of being an 'ageplayer'?
[19:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: No, someone approached me as if I might be.
[19:59] Skye Lewellen: and things that are one way with an adult avie get weird with a kid av
[19:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: And that made me feel very very very icky.
[20:00] You: I think Age Players need to all have acid baths.
[20:00] Caoilin Galthie: what is an age player?
[20:00] You: someone who uses sl to simulate sex with children
[20:00] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've been hit on in SL as an adult av, and it's a nuisance, but BFD.
[20:03] Sira Asylum: Did you ever run around with other child avvies, Llud?>
[20:03] Lludmila Mirrikh: I was TOO SHY! It was as bad as when I was a read kid! I tried to talk to the one at the Blarney Stone, but she didn't answer back.
[20:03] Caoilin Galthie: so where did you get your av llud?
[20:03] Lludmila Mirrikh: It was a freebie I picked up at a kid shopping place. The skin, though, is an adults.
[20:04] Caoilin Galthie: gotcha, child shape and adult skin?
[20:04] Lludmila Mirrikh: I think it's just a freckled one from Another Skin. There's a lot of fun playground stuff - but I'd do that as an adult.
[20:05] Grizzy Griswold is done being a child. That innocence can never be restored.
[20:05] Lludmila Mirrikh: And there's a school. Didn't have time for that.
[20:05] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yes, and the adult experience very much colored my child av's perspective.
[20:06] Caoilin Galthie: in what ways?
[20:06] Sean Gorham: Some things you just can't do over, I think.
[20:06] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I was on the look-out for pervs. And was afraid of adults. Kids are much more trusting.
[20:06] Caoilin Galthie: i can see that
[20:06] Lludmila Mirrikh: They don't know what can happen. They don't have the experience.
[20:06] Caoilin Galthie: my 4 yr old will talk to anyone!
[20:06] Lludmila Mirrikh: Right.
[20:06] Sean Gorham nods. "I was that way when I was 4!"
[20:07] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, *I* didn't talk much until I was about 13. Now you can't shut me up.
[20:07] Caoilin Galthie: i am sure we all were!
[20:07] Sean Gorham: Oh, I clammed up around 6. :P
[20:09] You: Michelle has something to say
[20:11] Michelle Thurston: I've got a little group going if you like this kind of meta-discussion of SL situation. Pretty much an open-format discussion of trends, observations, various sort of virtual phenomena
[20:11] Lludmila Mirrikh: What sorts of topics?
[20:12] Michelle Thurston: I've only recently started it, so that's still kind of up to everybody :P
[20:12] Arundel Dragonash: what is the group?
[20:12] Michelle Thurston: "The Deep End", IM me and I'll send an invite :)
[20:12] You: Any other questions, comments?
[20:13] Louise Isabella raises a timid hand
[20:13] You: ok, Louiise
[20:13] Louise Isabella: well, I was too chicken to go out to my usual places as heavy Louise. too close t my real self, etc. but I went with Grizzy to a club and it was ok and I was here a little bit to, and that was ok but then I just couldn't face all my close network of folk that I see everyday. Of course Roberto adores me in RL and that's lovely, but seeing me like this onscreen was very difficult
[20:15] Louise Isabella sighs
[20:15] You: We love ya no matter how ya look, Louise
[20:15] Louise Isabella grins -- thanks dear
[20:15] Louise Isabella: so that's all really
[20:15] Lludmila Mirrikh: You're beautiful.
[20:15] Skye Lewellen: you have a beautiful avie right now too :)
[20:15] Louise Isabella: awww, you are sweet, same Avi -- more my RL shape
[20:15] Sira Asylum: yes, big is beautiful
[20:15] Czari Zenovka: I was going to say, you don't look heavy to me
[20:15] You: Well, we have 15 minutes left...
[20:15] Sira Asylum: Book reccomendation: "Zaftig: The Case for Curves"
[20:15] You: and so if everyone is done... I will share my experiences for any who have not read the blog.
[20:16] Czari Zenovka: More like a normal woman than the sticks with balloons for boobs many SL female AVs are
[20:16] You: There were basically 3 phases for me. At first, I felt weird around new people. I was afraid to talk to people... Felt like I really really stood out that I just felt conspicuous. I also was are that any new person I met would probably think this is my normal self in sl and that bothered me a bit Also around people I knew I felt weird. If they weren't doing the experiment I felt like I was the only one dressed up for Halloween. I felt ok if I was with other people that had changed. but if I was the only one different, I felt off Then after a couple of days feeling that way I got used to it and then it became more that I really really really wanted my old av back and I wanted to wear western clothes. I didn't feel strange anymore I just felt tired of wearing all this stuff and then by the weekend, I decided I'd make the most of it and have fun with the outfits
[20:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: I loved the red outfit.
[20:19] You: and the last few days were fun and I didn't let it bother me and I got say I think I looked good and will find a way to bring the outfits back in the future.
[20:19] You: I loved the red outfit too.
[20:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hee!
[20:19] Arundel Dragonash: so it comes down to whether the wearer feels the oppression
[20:19] Sira Asylum: you were like Princess Jasmine
[20:20] You: yeah, I felt some oppresssion for a bit
[20:20] Caoilin Galthie: so grizz, do you think you had difficulty presenting yourself as a muslim when your christian faith is so important to you?
[20:20] You: but got over it
[20:20] You: well, I didn't try to act like a muslim. I just was me. and hid my faith in my profile.
[20:20] Caoilin Galthie: what i mean is being seen as a muslim without having to act as one?
[20:20] You: I didn't want to lie and pretend to be something I'm not.
[20:21] Michelle Thurston: Something tells me if a Muslim woman abides by Sharia enough to wear the hijab, she wouldn't be in SL
[20:21] You: yeah
[20:21] Louise Isabella: good point Michelle
[20:21] Lludmila Mirrikh: I dunno.
[20:21] You: Well, really for me it was just an issue of a loss of my usual sl identity. and sticking out because I looked different
[20:21] Lludmila Mirrikh: If she were escorted ...
[20:21] Caoilin Galthie: do you think so?
[20:21] Revenelliri Westland: unless it was a place they could feel freedom
[20:21] You: that was all that it was for me.
[20:21] Sean Gorham: Hm. True enough. There's always private sims.
[20:22] You: It really wasn't what I had chosen to become as much as how different I looked from normal and from everyone else.
[20:22] Caoilin Galthie: but part of veiling is so so that a woman can go out in public
[20:22] Sean Gorham: Right, Grizzy. In a place where people tend to show off and bare their flesh, you covered up completely. That stands out in its own way.
[20:22] Lludmila Mirrikh: The avatar is a veiling in itself.
[20:22] Caoilin Galthie: since veils are not usually worn in the home
[20:22] You: and on that note.. everyone else can change if they like as well

Being back in my normal avatar felt great. Like an old friend and like the weight of the world had been lifted from me. Llumila Murrikh has taken lots of great pics this week. Please check them out at http://www.flickr.com/marfita

Race/gender experiment day 7

2008-05-27T03:52:39Z

To help make wearing a hijab for 2 more days a little easier, I put on my favorite one again. I wore it back on day one and it is the first one I've repeated. I got compliment after compliment on my outfit tonight.

I still am looking forward to changing back to my old self. However I did still put a lot of time into my appearance this week. I was proud of my outfits and liked the way they turned out. I really think there is a beauty to this look. Its just a different culture and a different kind of beauty than my western mind is used to.

These outfits are staying in my inventory and I'll find an excuse to wear them again. Maybe an event theme (ethnic night anyone). Maybe just one night when I want to wear something really different.

I can't wait to have my old hair and skin and clothes back after tomorrow's event. However looking like this for a week, really wasn't bad at all, after I got used to it.

Race/gender experiment day 6

2008-05-26T01:35:07Z

Not much to say. I'm used to it by now. It doesn't bother me. Occasionally I still wish I could wear my regular clothes and avatar, but other than that my SL wasn't much different from normal and I don't feel self-conscious anymore. I do have a couple of small observations

1) Occasionally when I'm in public someone will read my profile, read about the club, and want a group invitation and/or a landmark. That has always happened. This week it has happened much much more often than normal. I can't help but think its because more people have been reading my profile, because my avatar looks different and that makes them curious. This is a good thing.

2) I am getting into lots of conversations with friends about Islam, because of my avatar. Not strangers, but people I already know. I will admit that I don't know a lot about the religion. What I do is a few minor things such as the 5 pillars of Islam. The fact that jihad does not always mean a war with an outside enemy but can mean an internal struggle.. etc. I also went to many interfaith events when I was in college that I've been around quite a few people who practice the faith. I know its a good peaceful religion. I also know that evil people have taken its teachings and twisted them into something ugly and perverse and then used that to kill lots of innocent people. Those people are to be feared.
It disturbs me how many people are willing to throw the entire religion of Islam and those who practice it under the bus as "evil" due to the actions of those people. Its a sizable number of people, but still not the majority of the faith and there have been similiarly dark periods of Christianity throughout history. Because I'm wearing Islamic garb this week, it has come up in conversation quite a bit and I'm usually the one defending Islam. This is particularly a strange place for me to be in since I am a pro-war conservative that voted for Bush both times (not really a fan though, better than Kerry would have been still). However I think most Muslims are good people and I stand by that until someone proves me wrong.
If you are reading this and you are one of the people who disagrees with me, I'm sorry we are going to have to respectfully disagree for now. As a Christian, I've been dumped into many groups of people that I dislike and don't identify with by those who are biased against Christians and tend to stereotype us. I am not going to do the same thing to another faith.

race/gender experiment day 5

2008-05-25T04:20:25Z

I think that this is one of the things I've done in sl that I have learned the most from that can be transferred to rl. Up until today I felt self-conscious around new people and self-conscious around friends too. I felt like everyone was looking at me and wondering about me and why I was dressed so oddly for SL. After 4 days of very little comment from anyone, I realize that a) people are much nicer and accepting than I originally though and b) people aren't paying as much attention or judging what I do as I thought.
While Grizzy Griswold is me, I am different as Grizzy than I am as my rl self. Grizzy is more outgoing, more willing to talk to strangers, less worried about people's opinions of her. This is something I strive for in rl, but have trouble achieving. I was picked on in high school for any minor thing they could think of to pick on me about, so I am self-conscious. Wearing a hijab in sl for the last 5 days has taught me that most people really don't care what I wear or what I look like or what I'm doing and the ones that do are probably people that I don't want to be friends with anyway.
This is a great revelation for me and I hope eventually to be able to take this attitude with me into rl, although it is much harder to do there, but SL is good practice. I now know that nobody cares what my av looks like so I don't feel self-conscious anymore. It doesn't bother me. If I can somehow get this attitude in rl, it will do wonders for me.
So until Tuesday, I'm just gonna live my second life as I normally would, I will just be dressed differently and that's not a problem. As for the other feelings I have had about missing my old avatar, I have dealt with that too today. I bought a bunch of new clothes that I can look forward to wearing when I turn back to normal. That alone improved my attitude. Also Czari pointed out to me in response to my day 4 post that there are lot of things that I can do with colors to switch things up and I already have enough stuff to do that. So for the rest of the experiment, I'll take pride in my appearance despite it not being what I'm used to. I'll think of it as a fun thing like Halloween.
The first 4 days were hard. Today was too at first, but its got a lot easier. I think the next 3 will just be fun. Not to say I don't look forward to turning back to normal, because I do.

race/gender experiment day 4

2008-05-24T03:02:30Z

Still sick. I was well enough to go to work, but I left early. Normally I don't log into sl at all on Friday nights so I was expecting day 4 to not even be a post, but illness changed that. There's not a whole lot to say at this point. I've been all over sl is this avatar now, and I'm not treated that much differently that I've noticed. I'm mostly over any self-consciousness that I could have because I'm used to looking like that now and I know its not a problem. My only real thoughts about it today was the fact that I found a nightclub that I really like in sl this week. I've been there enough that the regulars probably think that's the way I really look. It will be interesting when I go back wearing my normal avatar. I will blog about that when it happens.

Also there is still the fact that I just really miss my old clothes and hair and everything else. I'm getting bored with having to wear the same thing every day. Sure I have different colors and different designs but its the same basic look. It has made me wonder how many rl muslim women who live in a western culture wish that they could wear western clothing. I wonder if any of them no matter how devout wish they could dress like everyone else. If so, I think that is really a testament to how serious they are about their faith. Not to mention the fact that in some climates that has to be a terribly uncomfortable thing to wear.

I'm half way through this now. If it has been as difficult for the other's doing it as it has been for me, I am grateful that they are committed enough to my idea to put up with this for a week. I have fantastic people at my club. The only situation left that I think may be awkward is SL church on Sunday. It will be very odd to show up at the Cathedral in a hijab.

race/gender experiment day 3

2008-05-23T04:01:00Z

I was sick again today so I was home from work again. When I'm sick, I spend lots of time in sl, because when you live at home and you can't leave because you're sick, SL at least makes you feel connected to the outside somehow. Because of being sick I've spent maybe 2 or 3 times the normal amount of time I spend in sl over the last few days. So while it is really day 3. It feels more like day 5 or 6.

There has still been a bit of the feeling that I am more visible than other avatars, because I'm dressed so radically different. This still makes me feel a bit self-conscious. However this is lessening. Most places I go, I am treated politely and my avatar isn't mentioned. So I'm not so much concerned now that everyone is looking at me. That self-consciousness has changed to something else. Whenever I talk to someone I don't know, I wonder what they are thinking about the person behind the keyboard. Just by changing my look and what is on my profile, I am giving a vastly inaccurate depiction of who I am in rl AND who I am in sl. I wonder what these people who have only seen me in Islamic garb would think if they saw me again next week after all this is over. Someone asked me where I was from and I was wondering if they were trying to pin down my nationality.

Really I now actually feel more strange around those I already DO know who aren't participating in my little experiment. Their avatars look like they always do. Mine does not. I feel as if I am dressed up for Halloween on the wrong day. One person that I knew but had not seen in a long time and did not know about the experiment asked me if I was supposed to be a nun. I'm finding the loss of who I normally am in sl around those who I know who haven't also changed identities makes me feel more strange than anything else I've done this week.

The other feeling I have had today is just simply missing my normal avatar. It looks absolutely nothing like me, but that persona has become who I am when I log into sl and without it I don't feel quite like myself. I went exploring a sim with a friend and there were lots of shops on the sim that had the types of clothing my av would normally wear. It made me want to change back immediately and made the 5 days I have left in the experiment seem like a long time.

Then tonight for the Grizzy's Cafe event, we visited popular places in sl to see if we were treated differently. Ahern Welcome Area by far got the most results. My friends who had chosen to be furries for a week were greeted with "OMG, FUR FAGS!" I was mostly ignored except one guy IMed me because he was intrigued by my avatar and wanted to know if I was Indian. We also went to Blarney Stone and Yadni's Junkyard, but those excursions were rather uneventful for me.

[20:07] Lludmila Mirrikh: You have a really nice look in that get up, Grizz.
[20:07] You: thanks, Llud
[20:07] You: I'm glad since I'm stuck like this til Tues. (:
[20:08] You: I'm hoping my viewer will recover from the lag.
[20:08] Arundel Dragonash: hey Grizzy, you need some wheelchair spots at the table
[20:08] Lludmila Mirrikh: Arundel, I thought about what you said about the wheelchair. My dad says getting in and out of it is too much trouble.
[20:08] You: that's true, Arundel
[20:08] Lludmila Mirrikh: And he could probably use one.
[20:08] Argent Bury is Offline
[20:08] You: Does anyone have any thoughts.. observations?
[20:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I'm afraid to initiate conversations with adults.
[20:09] Czari Zenovka: I'm not going to Ahern any time soon ;)
[20:09] Argent Bury is Online
[20:09] Arundel Dragonash: I was around yesterday, and no one said much to me
[20:09] You: Aheren is a hellhole
[20:09] Grizzy's Cafe: Hello Qaz, welcome to Grizzy's Cafe. We hope you enjoy your visit.
[20:09] Evelyn Edelman is Online
[20:09] Czari Zenovka: Oh that's a cool idea Arundel
[20:09] Death Harbinger is Online
[20:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've been talking to some of my regular friends. A couple think I'm just adorable.
[20:10] Arundel Dragonash: Llud, did I just roll over you?
[20:10] Czari Zenovka: That's what I'm getting from friends too
[20:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: One says he's creeped out by it.
[20:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: Roll away, babe!
[20:10] You: I saw someone I knew today that didn't know about this experiment.
[20:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: Can't dent my pixels!
[20:10] You: she thought I was supposed to be a nun
[20:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hee!
[20:10] Lludmila Mirrikh: She conflated the old and new yous.
[20:10] Qaz Kirax: I give up. I'll just stand
[20:10] You: I felt really apprehensive about Ahern
[20:11] Grizzy's Cafe: Hello Riemann, welcome to Grizzy's Cafe. We hope you enjoy your visit.
[20:11] Arundel Dragonash: Glor, how ar your sailor friends reacting?
[20:11] Czari Zenovka: Apprehenxive how Grizzy?
[20:11] You: unsafe
[20:11] You: someone that looks different in the way I look diffeent
[20:11] You: is a target for rude people
[20:11] Czari Zenovka: I just thought about how many jerks there were
[20:11] Argent Bury is Offline
[20:11] Drangea Lyndhurst is Offline
[20:11] Glorfindel Arrow: I went to a class today and they were surprised at the change, mostly women there
[20:11] You: I was waiting for some crack about 9/11 or something
[20:11] Argent Bury is Online
[20:12] Czari Zenovka: If it wouldhn't have been griefing, I had this impulse to pull out my shotgun and start shooting *Hums innocently*
[20:12] Glorfindel Arrow: they ribbed me a little, but good naturedly.... said I made a purty gurl....lol
[20:12] Lludmila Mirrikh: I bet that's how Muslims go around all the time, expecting someone to riff on 9/11.
[20:12] Lludmila Mirrikh: You DO make a purty girl.
[20:12] You: not as purty as me though
[20:12] Czari Zenovka: I had a co-worker who is Pakastani
[20:12] Czari Zenovka: And he is a survivor of 9-11
[20:12] MarcusE Kidd is Offline
[20:12] Glorfindel Arrow: Lala la la
[20:13] Qaz Kirax: Nobody said anything to me at Ahern but I did get a few random friend requests
[20:13] Czari Zenovka: But he said for weeks after people looked at him with hatred.....and he said he was more afraid of them
[20:13] You: Someoen IMed me and actually complimented my avatar
[20:13] You: He thought I was Indian
[20:13] Glorfindel Arrow: somebody mentioned my name, but don't know why...
[20:13] Czari Zenovka: And again...he is not Muslim or Arab descent
[20:14] Czari Zenovka: We got the Furfaggs comment....lol
[20:14] Lludmila Mirrikh: Lucky y'all!
[20:14] You: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gospeed_racer/2514941138/
[20:14] Arundel Dragonash: I thought most people from Pakistan were Muslim
[20:14] Czari Zenovka: I don't know about most...but he wasn't
[20:14] Arundel Dragonash: ah
[20:14] Czari Zenovka: In fact he made a comment once that "Muslims are crazy"
[20:15] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I know a guy from Ireland who said the Boston Irish were "scary."
[20:15] Czari Zenovka: Pakistanis are kin to Indians...so I'd say Ummmm.....Hindu perhaps
[20:15] You: I get Christians are scary or are morons a lot.
[20:15] Lludmila Mirrikh: Excuse me, what he actually said was, "They're plain a'ful!"
[20:15] You: mostly in sl
[20:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: I think there are some smaller groups in Pak.
[20:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: Some Buddhists even.
[20:16] You: every religion has nutjobs that make it look bad for everyone else
[20:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: Even Atheists.
[20:16] You: yes, sl actually has improved my attitude about atheist
[20:16] You: atheists*
[20:16] Lludmila Mirrikh: Really??!!
[20:16] You: because of you and Indy and others
[20:17] Twill Juniper is Online
[20:17] Lludmila Mirrikh breathes a sigh of relief.
[20:17] Jen Shikami is Offline
[20:17] You: because most atheists I had encountered seemed to want to convert me
[20:17] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, well, I have an "outreach" program.
[20:17] Skye Lewellen: ack! ya'll are atheists???!!!! lol jk
[20:17] You: or treated me like I had some sort of disease
[20:17] You: mental disorder
[20:17] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I like to hang out with YOU because you are normal.
[20:18] Lludmila Mirrikh: And I mean that in a nice way.
[20:18] You: Most Christians are.. we just have our nutjobs like everyone else. (:
[20:18] StormCrow Dagger: they just get all the airtime
[20:18] Qaz Kirax: As a new Christian I tried to convert people but I don't do that anymore
[20:18] You: me too
[20:18] You: but I was young
[20:18] Czari Zenovka: I've always lived in areas that are multi-cultural and lots of different faiths....and have friends of all different outlooks...
[20:18] Arundel Dragonash: Enthusiasm for the new
[20:18] Lludmila Mirrikh: I saw a church sign once that said, "God wants the fruits of faith, not Christian nuts."
[20:18] Czari Zenovka: LOL
[20:18] Qaz Kirax: I try to respect other people's beliefs even if I don't agree with them
[20:18] StormCrow Dagger: lol
[20:18] You: me too
[20:18] You: Part of why I chose this av..
[20:19] You: is because I think Islam gets a bad rap.
[20:19] You: there are evil Muslims who want to kill us
[20:19] You: but that ain't all of them
[20:19] You: by far
[20:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: There's a nutjob in our town who put up a sign at his bidness that said, "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim>"
[20:19] Glorfindel Arrow: I've read some stuff on the internet that didn't sound so good about muslims
[20:19] You: nope there are terrorists of all faiths.
[20:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: I mentioned it to a co-worker and she said, "That's true."
[20:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: How soon they forget!
[20:20] You: how about the Christians who bomb abortion clinics?
[20:20] You: or those God Hates Fags guys?
[20:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: They STILL have trouble in Northern Ireland.
[20:20] You: I put them in the terrorist category.
[20:20] Glorfindel Arrow: yeah
[20:20] Czari Zenovka: Yes...the IRA
[20:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: And then there's the Jewish guy who shot up a mosque.
[20:20] Czari Zenovka: I was actually in Dublin when the IRA set off car bombs years agoo
[20:21] Czari Zenovka: *ago
[20:21] Skye Lewellen: i'm keeping my mouth shut lol
[20:21] Skye Lewellen listens
[20:21] Sudonym Preez is Online
[20:21] You: I actually get more religious persecution as a Christian in sl than like this.
[20:21] DreeMeDee Psaltery is Offline
[20:21] Lludmila Mirrikh: Even my Humanism group gets a bit radical on me.
[20:21] Angelina Rennahan is Offline
[20:21] You: there are some people from that group
[20:22] You: who grief my bible studies sometimes.
[20:22] Czari Zenovka: I haven't experienced any flack from being a Christian....and most of the people I know (prior to now) are not Christians
[20:22] Skye Lewellen: I LOVE humans! very tasty :)
[20:22] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hee!
[20:22] You: they come and spam chat with websites "disproving" the existance of God.
[20:22] StormCrow Dagger chuckles
[20:22] Czari Zenovka: They know where I stand and I"m not an evangelist...so nothing really comes of it negatively
[20:22] You: and then when we tell them to please be polite if they want to join the conversation..
[20:23] Grizzy's Cafe: Hello Sudonym, welcome to Grizzy's Cafe. We hope you enjoy your visit.
[20:23] StormCrow Dagger: (at Skye's comments of course)
[20:23] Anya Ristow isn't getting any less hungry
[20:23] You: they get defensive
[20:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, I have to admit our own meetings aren't all nodding and agreeing about everything.
[20:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: Lotsa diversity in the Humanism camp as well.
[20:23] You: I mean to me.. that's like me showing up at the humanism meeting and telling everyone they need Jesus
[20:23] Angelina Rennahan is Online
[20:23] You: but they would be livid if I did that.
[20:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: That would actually help us stay away from our own throats.
[20:24] Skye Lewellen: lolol
[20:24] Kate Amdahl is Online
[20:24] You: I don't understand why people don't understand when they are just as bad as the people they don't like.
[20:24] Skye Lewellen: we always go for someone else's throat at our meetings:)
[20:24] You: People don't like a group for a behavior and then engage in the exact same behavior.
[20:24] Lludmila Mirrikh: We had someone come to advocate the Ben Stein movie.
[20:24] Lludmila Mirrikh smiles.
[20:24] Argent Bury is Offline
[20:25] You: well, as someone who believes in both intelligent design and Darwin
[20:25] You: I am interested in seeing the movie
[20:25] You: Hi Sudonym
[20:25] Qaz Kirax: What movie is this?
[20:25] Czari Zenovka: Hi Sudonym!
[20:25] Lludmila Mirrikh: I think he's just trying to cash in on the coattails of Mel Gibson.
[20:25] Don Aster is Offline
[20:26] You: Ben Stein made a documentary
[20:26] Sudonym Preez: Hi all!
[20:26] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hi, Sud!
[20:26] Czari Zenovka: Who's Ben Stein?
[20:26] You: about how if you mention intelligent design in schools you get ostracized
[20:26] You: the Clear Eyes "bueller bueller" guy
[20:26] Glorfindel Arrow: hey Sud
[20:26] Skye Lewellen: "bueller... bueller.... bueller"... :)
[20:26] Qaz Kirax: ben stein
[20:26] Czari Zenovka: I must be living under a rock...lol...still don't recognize the name ;)
[20:26] Glorfindel Arrow: he had a game show for a while....lol
[20:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: And was a speechwriter for some president - I forget who now.
[20:27] Skye Lewellen: been under that rock a very long time :)
[20:27] You: Nixon I believe
[20:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: !!! He's that old?
[20:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: Christopher Buckley wrote for Papa Bush.
[20:27] Rosmairta Kilara is Online
[20:27] Qaz Kirax: That's who I thought he was
[20:28] Czari Zenovka: I actually watch very little TV any more...so I miss some of the more recent pop stuff
[20:28] Sudonym Preez: Y'all talking about Expelled?
[20:28] Lludmila Mirrikh: We don't have TV.
[20:28] You: yeah
[20:28] Lludmila Mirrikh: That's it!
[20:28] Lludmila Mirrikh: Forgot the title.
[20:28] Qaz Kirax: Trying to search for him on Google, typed his name into the wrong window
[20:28] You: I don't have cable
[20:28] You: but I watch DVDs
[20:28] Grizzy's Cafe: Hello Skye, welcome to Grizzy's Cafe. We hope you enjoy your visit.
[20:28] Sudonym Preez: It's still too new to be on DVD
[20:28] You: yeah
[20:28] Czari Zenovka: TV is for people who don't have computers *chuckles* (I heard that someplace)
[20:28] Qaz Kirax: using two computers with two keyboards, I get a little mixed up sometimes
[20:28] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hee!
[20:29] Argent Bury is Online
[20:29] You: well, everyone.. I'm gonna blog about today..
[20:29] Glorfindel Arrow: hey Skye, flying thru the window....lol
[20:29] You: and then go to bed.
[20:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: Okey dokey!
[20:29] You: so check my blog. (:
[20:29] Skye Lewellen: lol yeah - gotta play the part
[20:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: That Ahearn thing was quite an experience!
[20:29] Twill Juniper is Offline
[20:29] Anya Ristow: Good night, Griz
[20:29] You: yeah
[20:29] Czari Zenovka: yeah..to say the least
[20:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: Do I have your blog address?
[20:29] You: see y'all later
[20:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: Byeeee!
[20:29] Skye Lewellen: night Grizz!
[20:29] You: http://grizzygriswold.livejournal.com
[20:29] Qaz Kirax: Good night Grizzy
[20:29] Glorfindel Arrow: g'night Grizzy
[20:29] Czari Zenovka: Night Grizzy and everyone....tonight was fun and interesting!

Race/gender experiment day 2

2008-05-22T03:08:20Z

I had lots of time to spend in SL today, because in rl I was sick. Usually when I'm sick I get bored and lonely and spend lots of time in sl. This was no exception. I still feel a bit out of place in the hijab. I am constantly aware that my avatar looks different and much different. I am much more self-conscious and aware of my appearance than normal. Whenever I look at my avatar, it seems odd. I had to work my way up to venturing away from familiar places.
I finally decided to check out a few nightclubs that I had never been to. I don't go to clubs in sl much, because I'm always at my own club. I'm finding that the hijab is not having a great effect on how I am treated which I think is a very good thing. Maybe people aren't as prejudiced as I thought. However I still felt out of place because I looked different. I mostly went to clubs and I still used the dance balls, though I'm fairly certain muslim women are not allowed to dance. I wondered if I would get asked about that, but it seems that I was just another visitor to the club. At one club, I got hit on. I found it very strange that someone would hit on a woman wearing a hijab. Not only did I get hit on but it was a partnership proposal!
At another club, a bunch of people were wearing silly hats. I was offered a silly hat to wear as well, but I declined explaining that I was afraid the attachment would remove my hijab. They polited responded with a smile emoticon. As I left the club, one woman friended me. I felt at that point it was important to explain the experiment to her in IM so I did.
I guess what I learned today is that people are not paying as much attention to what we look like as I originally thought and that is a good thing. However walking around in a hijab still feels awkward and strange though I'm slightly more comfortable with myself than I was when I first logged on today.

Race/gender experiment day 1

2008-05-21T03:59:52Z

So tonight was the first night in our new avatars at Grizzy's Cafe

Here is my new look, just so you know what I'll look like all week:

Thanks to Lludmila for the pic... more of pics on here flickr site.. www.flickr.com/marfita

We got together and discussed what we expect to get out of the exprience and how we feel in our new avatars: Here is a transcript heavily edited for being really really long:

You of course is me!

[2008/05/20 18:30] You: Ok, I'm figure this is going to be a lively discussion. At least I hope so...
[2008/05/20 18:30] You: so what I thought we'd do is this..
[2008/05/20 18:30] You: Hey Riemann
[2008/05/20 18:30] You: we will first go around the room... starting with me..
[2008/05/20 18:31] You: and tell why we picked whatever we picked for the week...
[2008/05/20 18:31] You: and what we expect to get out of the week
[2008/05/20 18:31] You: and how we initially feel after the change.
[2008/05/20 18:31] You: and then we will discuss where we will visit on Thursday
[2008/05/20 18:31] You: and then we will have a free for all discussion.
[2008/05/20 18:32] You: So to start out...
[2008/05/20 18:33] You: I chose to be a Muslim for a variety of reasons...
[2008/05/20 18:33] You: for one thing, due to the fact that it is a peaceful religion that has recently been perverted by evil.
[2008/05/20 18:33] You: I think I will get a bit of prejudice.
[2008/05/20 18:33] You: because some people don't undrestand that all Islam is not radical Islam.
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: I also chose this look because it is the polar opposite of the norm for sl..
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: everything is covered up instead of everything hanging out.
[2008/05/20 18:34] Beacon Becloud: yep
[2008/05/20 18:34] Beacon Becloud: thanks Grizz
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: I have only worn this around the club so far, except briefly before I logged off
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: last night
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: I wanted to show my new av to my friend Lina..
[2008/05/20 18:34] You: and she tped me to a jazz dance club..
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: I felt rather out of place...
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: everyone was wearing evening gowns and tuxes
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: and I looked like this..
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: I felt strange and awkward.
[2008/05/20 18:35] Beacon Becloud: so its an experiment on your own feelings too then
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: and I still even here don't feel like me. despite the fact that my normal av doesn't look like me, I have used it so long that I identify with it.
[2008/05/20 18:35] You: Yes, Beacon it is about both our feelings and the way we are treated.
[2008/05/20 18:36] You: So that's a little bit about how I feel and why I am doing this.. whoever wants to go next shoot.
[2008/05/20 18:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'll share.
[2008/05/20 18:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've done this before, as a black man.
[2008/05/20 18:37] Lludmila Mirrikh: There's very little in the line of avatars that I have NOT used, so it was hard for me tothink of something different.
[2008/05/20 18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: Then I remembered the problems one of my Flickr acquaintences was having as a child avatar.
[2008/05/20 18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: You might remember Marianne McCann - she did an exhibit on "Why a Kid."
[2008/05/20 18:38] You: yes, I am familiar with Marianne
[2008/05/20 18:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: Child avatars are an oppressed minority on SL - and while I feel FOR them, I don't really understand the desire to be a child again.
[2008/05/20 18:39] You: I'm the same way.
[2008/05/20 18:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: I have spent this afternoon on SL a couple of times and I am already TOTALLY CREEPED OUT.
[2008/05/20 18:39] LaDonna Upshaw: however, there are issues with being a child in sl
[2008/05/20 18:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've had an adult avi approach me.
[2008/05/20 18:39] Beacon Becloud: yes...there are
[2008/05/20 18:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: In a "childsafe" area.
[2008/05/20 18:40] Gonzo Mandelbrot: Hi all
[2008/05/20 18:40] Arundel Dragonash: eew
[2008/05/20 18:40] Arundel Dragonash: not you Gonzo
[2008/05/20 18:40] Beacon Becloud: Lludmila if adults approach you in a certain way there is an organisation set up that wants you to report that too
[2008/05/20 18:40] Serene Vella: I thought it would be fun to be a "child" but was creeped out by the looks of the avis!
[2008/05/20 18:40] Lludmila Mirrikh: And even though I'm fully 54, it just bothered me - and it wasn't even that overtly sexual.
[2008/05/20 18:40] Serene Vella: I know what you mean.
[2008/05/20 18:41] You: Nothing in sl bothers me more than that.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Serene Vella: It ruins the innocence.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: So, if anyone would like to volunteer as a parent for this week, I'd appreciate it.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Rew Weatherwax: If i may say so...most of the
[2008/05/20 18:41] Beacon Becloud: nothing in rl bothers me more than that
[2008/05/20 18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: If not, I'm gonna throw the biggest FIT you've ever seen!
[2008/05/20 18:41] You: For those who just came, we are sharing why we chose what we chose.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: Thank you.
[2008/05/20 18:41] You: anyone care to go next?
[2008/05/20 18:41] Edward Bournemouth: I'll go
[2008/05/20 18:41] Lacota Michigan: lol - we'll be your parents, but it might be confusing.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Rew Weatherwax: 'children' ive seen in sl were er..brats ..and annoying
[2008/05/20 18:41] You: ok, Ed.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Edward Bournemouth: this is the second time I've done this
[2008/05/20 18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'm an annoying adult.
[2008/05/20 18:41] Edward Bournemouth: first time was with my other avie - April, a female
[2008/05/20 18:42] Edward Bournemouth: I made her Indian for a week
[2008/05/20 18:42] Edward Bournemouth: Indian from India
[2008/05/20 18:42] Edward Bournemouth: so this time around, I decided to do something with Edward
[2008/05/20 18:42] Edward Bournemouth: this was the obvious choice for two reasons
[2008/05/20 18:42] Edward Bournemouth: a) I'm a white, blue-eyed French Canadian male
[2008/05/20 18:43] Edward Bournemouth: as far removed from this avie as possible, which makes the experience interesting and challenging
[2008/05/20 18:43] Edward Bournemouth: b) culturally, the Jamaican rasta is as far removed from the way I see myself as possible
[2008/05/20 18:43] You: Hey I'm a white male Christian, playing a black female Muslim for the week so I hear ya. (:
[2008/05/20 18:44] Edward Bournemouth: so to be honest I have no idea what to expect in terms of reactions
[2008/05/20 18:44] Edward Bournemouth: but I do a double take everytime I log on...
[2008/05/20 18:44] Edward Bournemouth: which is good
[2008/05/20 18:44] You: great, next?
[2008/05/20 18:44] Lovie Markova: So what will you all do? See how others react to u in SL?
[2008/05/20 18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: And how we react.
[2008/05/20 18:45] Serene Vella: That's part of it.
[2008/05/20 18:45] You: yes
[2008/05/20 18:45] Lovie Markova: I think u might be surprised. Everyon e seems accepting.
[2008/05/20 18:46] Gonzo Mandelbrot: I chose to go with a minimal transformation... I just changed from "male" to "female" under appearance, and changed my hair so it covers the top of my head
[2008/05/20 18:46] Gonzo Mandelbrot: I'm wearing the same clothes I would be ordinarily, and IMve kept the same age and weight characteristics I had originally
[2008/05/20 18:46] You: its a good thing you lost the beard too.
[2008/05/20 18:46] Lludmila Mirrikh: Tee hee!
[2008/05/20 18:47] Gonzo Mandelbrot: That disappeared with the sex change
[2008/05/20 18:47] Gonzo Mandelbrot: You can,t be a bearded female in Sl, apparently
[2008/05/20 18:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've notice that about SL.
[2008/05/20 18:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bummer.
[2008/05/20 18:47] TommyJW Ninetails: at least you kept you hairy niples!?
[2008/05/20 18:47] Beacon Becloud: hahahah
[2008/05/20 18:47] Lludmila Mirrikh covers her ears.
[2008/05/20 18:47] GoSpeed Racer: ewwww
[2008/05/20 18:48] Lludmila Mirrikh: Blame it on the birth control pills.
[2008/05/20 18:48] Gonzo Mandelbrot: I have no idea what to expect... I went to the Blarney Stone earlier, and got no particular reactions
[2008/05/20 18:48] You: btw, Lacota and Tulsa need to go next because they have to go to a class.
[2008/05/20 18:48] Gonzo Mandelbrot: That's it for me
[2008/05/20 18:48] You: thanks Gonzo, if you are finished, I will go ahead and let them talk then. (:
[2008/05/20 18:49] Lacota Michigan: Sorry to talk and run, folks. :) It's the last week of a 10 week group study.
[2008/05/20 18:49] Lacota Michigan: Well, I was telling Grizzy and Beacon earlier how the second I rezzed into SL the guys were hitting on me, and that was in the cookie cutter av.
[2008/05/20 18:50] Edward Bournemouth: lol Lacota... I got that as a female noob
[2008/05/20 18:50] Lacota Michigan: That was on Orientation Island
[2008/05/20 18:51] Lacota Michigan: As a married couple, we decided to role reverse and see where it would lead. It's been interesting so far, especially shopping as a woman.
[2008/05/20 18:51] Lacota Michigan: SL is very prejudiced towards men.
[2008/05/20 18:51] Lacota Michigan: It's like being a Mac user - ha ha.
[2008/05/20 18:51] You: yeah, shopping as a woman was very interesting in my newbie days.
[2008/05/20 18:51] Sophia Tulip: in favor of men?
[2008/05/20 18:51] Lacota Michigan: In favor of women.
[2008/05/20 18:52] Lacota Michigan: How's it been for you, Hun?
[2008/05/20 18:52] You: btw, for those who don't know, the reason I'm female in sl, is really just a much much more long term version of this experiment.
[2008/05/20 18:52] LaDonna Upshaw: i don't think sl is prejudiced toward men
[2008/05/20 18:52] Tulsa Blitz: First of all you know me as Arizona Raymaker and I chose a simple gender switch because I wanted to build a guy avi. I'm still kind of new to SL and Ewan walked me through the process when I joined. I wanted to do this one all by myself. And try shopping like a guy... couldn't pull that one off. LOL. Still shop like a girl. As far as feelings go, it's a little weird but I built myself so I feel like myself. The week will reveal how I feel about how I am treated.
[2008/05/20 18:53] LaDonna Upshaw: i think men don't have the choices because they don't drive the marketplace
[2008/05/20 18:53] Serene Vella: I was reading the "rules" somewhere where you aren't supposed to ask what gender people are unless they mention it in their profile.
[2008/05/20 18:53] Tulsa Blitz: As a new guy, I agree.
[2008/05/20 18:53] Beacon Becloud: do you have an AO on Eric?
[2008/05/20 18:53] You: I only put it my profile because I felt dishonest
[2008/05/20 18:54] You: after 3 months of no one knowing I'm not female in rl.
[2008/05/20 18:54] You: So who wants to go next?
[2008/05/20 18:54] Caoilin Galthie: ill go
[2008/05/20 18:54] Serene Vella: So now I'm afraid to mention it, although with a name like Serene I may be asked ...
[2008/05/20 18:54] Rew Weatherwax thinks men being hardwired for sex does drive a good bit of the marketplace..unfortunatly
[2008/05/20 18:54] Caoilin Galthie: i had this idea after thinking about it for a bit
[2008/05/20 18:55] Caoilin Galthie: and had the same idea as grizzy
[2008/05/20 18:55] Caoilin Galthie: i purchased an iranian chador
[2008/05/20 18:55] Caoilin Galthie: which is what alot of the women in iran wear
[2008/05/20 18:56] Caoilin Galthie: one reason is that i get alot of positive attention as a beautiful woman in SL
[2008/05/20 18:56] Caoilin Galthie: so i thought this would be interesting
[2008/05/20 18:56] Caoilin Galthie: also, with the tensions between the US and Iran and the Muslim world
[2008/05/20 18:56] You: yeah, that's part of why I picked this as well, Caoilin
[2008/05/20 18:56] Caoilin Galthie: i thought it would be interesting to walk in the other sides shoes for a week
[2008/05/20 18:57] Caoilin Galthie: also, my cousin was murdered in the WTC, so i have had to struggle with my feelings about Islam these past 6.5 years
[2008/05/20 18:57] Caoilin Galthie: so in a sense, walking a mile in my "enemies" shoes
[2008/05/20 18:57] Seeker Schussel: It was not who you think Caoilin
[2008/05/20 18:58] Caoilin Galthie: i know that seeker, and that is part of my struggle[2008/05/20 18:58] Caoilin Galthie: between hating the actions of 19 people acting in the name of islam
[2008/05/20 18:58] Caoilin Galthie: and the 1 billion other muslims in the world[2008/05/20 18:58] Seeker Schussel: IT is most difficult for those close to the situation
[2008/05/20 18:59] Franja Russell: You're right, Caolin. I wish you well.
[2008/05/20 18:59] You: ok, who's next?
[2008/05/20 18:59] Sophia Tulip: me
[2008/05/20 19:00] Sophia Tulip: I chose a man
[2008/05/20 19:00] Sophia Tulip: but I feel soooo uncomfortable in his skin...I chose a manly man aka Mr. Clean look alike
[2008/05/20 19:00] Serene Vella: Yes, I know just how you feel!
[2008/05/20 19:00] You: I was uncomfortable as a girl for about 4 months..
[2008/05/20 19:00] You: but it was so interesting that I didn't mind.
[2008/05/20 19:00] Sophia Tulip: I am embarassed to go anywhere
[2008/05/20 19:01] Sophia Tulip: because I don't know how to act:))
[2008/05/20 19:01] Serene Vella: Wait 'til Sunday :)
[2008/05/20 19:01] You: I have long been used to my sl persona though and identify with it now..., but I feel strange and awkward looking like I do now.
[2008/05/20 19:01] Sophia Tulip: I told Griz...that I actually wanted to be a bit aggressive with female, but not sexually explicit...
[2008/05/20 19:01] Serene Vella: Yes, you seem "meeker" somehow.
[2008/05/20 19:01] Sophia Tulip: I can't even go any where yet...except here
[2008/05/20 19:02] Sophia Tulip: ok...I am done:)
[2008/05/20 19:02] You: I know.. I feel bizarre anytime I venture outside of here.
[2008/05/20 19:02] You: I was even talking to someone I know on the sim, who isn't doing this and I felt odd.
[2008/05/20 19:02] Serene Vella: Let's go somewhere together ... maybe it won't be as hard!
[2008/05/20 19:02] You: we're getting to that,Serene.
[2008/05/20 19:02] You: that's Thursday's event
[2008/05/20 19:02] Sophia Tulip: I don't know if I can do bible study like this!
[2008/05/20 19:03] Arundel Dragonash: My aunt refused to use a chair when she needed one
[2008/05/20 19:03] Arundel Dragonash: and I did not understand why not
[2008/05/20 19:03] Arundel Dragonash: , so ere I am
[2008/05/20 19:03] You: ok, Beacon's turn next
[2008/05/20 19:03] Beacon Becloud: well I chose Native American for a reason really close to my heart
[2008/05/20 19:03] Beacon Becloud: last month my SL son died of a brain tumor
[2008/05/20 19:04] Beacon Becloud: he was a Native American
[2008/05/20 19:04] Beacon Becloud: and we shared many fun times togther at Tombstone
[2008/05/20 19:04] Franja Russell: I'm sorry, Bacon.
[2008/05/20 19:04] Beacon Becloud: well last night I found a great sim that has web links
[2008/05/20 19:04] Beacon Becloud: to what our history books never told us
[2008/05/20 19:04] Beacon Becloud: for one thing there is no such thing as an Indian Princess
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: that is royalty that is white man's world
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: I plan to go back to that sim all week
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: and find out more
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: but I know that my SL son experienced a lot of flack
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: one man told him once he was a " dirty injun"
[2008/05/20 19:05] Caoilin Galthie: i have heard that from other native americans in SL
[2008/05/20 19:05] Beacon Becloud: and I helped him buy a gun to shoot the guy with
[2008/05/20 19:06] Beacon Becloud: so this should prove an interesting experiment
[2008/05/20 19:06] Beacon Becloud: of getting to knwo more of what he went thorugh in his short 16 years here
[2008/05/20 19:06] Beacon Becloud: at the end because he had come to know the Lord
[2008/05/20 19:06] EricLeGeek Grauman: One is proud of ones HERITAGE!!!!!
[2008/05/20 19:06] Beacon Becloud: he told me not to cry - that he knew where he going
[2008/05/20 19:06] Beacon Becloud: and I wear a ribbon too - for childhood cancer
[2008/05/20 19:07] Serene Vella: Good quote: "They made us many promises ... more than I can remember, but they kept but one. They promised to take our land and they took it."
[2008/05/20 19:07] Beacon Becloud: and stayed at Tombstone or at Virtually You
[2008/05/20 19:07] Beacon Becloud: I thought his desire to knwo the Lord was more important than sending him to the teen grid
[2008/05/20 19:08] Beacon Becloud: its beyond the point now though
[2008/05/20 19:08] Beacon Becloud: I am just thankful I met him
[2008/05/20 19:08] Beacon Becloud: he impacted my life
[2008/05/20 19:08] Beacon Becloud: yes and there is a memorial to him at the Virtually You here
[2008/05/20 19:09] Beacon Becloud: at the skybox
[2008/05/20 19:09] Beacon Becloud: ok I'm done
[2008/05/20 19:10] Anya Ristow: I'll go next...
[2008/05/20 19:11] Anya Ristow: It seems to me that SL is a lot less social than when I joined and I want to try some things to see if it isn't just me...
[2008/05/20 19:11] Anya Ristow: When I was new I had a newbie avatar that was still unusual (Anya is fat) and I received a lot of attention...
[2008/05/20 19:12] Anya Ristow: Some positive, some griefing.
[2008/05/20 19:12] Anya Ristow: But by the time I worked some on my avatar an didn't look like a newbie anymore people stopped paying me any attention.
[2008/05/20 19:13] You: I don't think your av looked like a newbie, just different from everyone else.
[2008/05/20 19:13] You: which was a good thing
[2008/05/20 19:13] Anya Ristow: It seems to me that SL has gotten younger and less social, and also that [ep[;e are spendiong a lot more effort on their AVs. It might be that my AV just wasn't interesting anymore.
[2008/05/20 19:13] Caoilin Galthie: can you describe what you look like now anya?
[2008/05/20 19:13] Anya Ristow: So, I now have an AV that is young, thin and detailed. We'll see if people are more social.
[2008/05/20 19:14] You: I think that's one of the more interesting things I've heard tonight, Anya.
[2008/05/20 19:14] Anya Ristow: Thanks, Griz
[2008/05/20 19:15] Anya Ristow: Anya's skin isn't any older than the one I'm wearing now, but the avatar just seemed like an adult. That may be just what I read into it.
[2008/05/20 19:16] Skye Lewellen: i think that n00bs are intimidated by older sler's
[2008/05/20 19:17] Calla Strom: Ok, I started SL as a white avatar, when i am really a black in RL
[2008/05/20 19:17] Calla Strom: So i made over a 100 friends on SL... mostly all white, and after a year has passed i showed them my RL photo
[2008/05/20 19:18] Calla Strom: Well, now most of them act as if i dont exsit or ignore me completely, ...
[2008/05/20 19:18] Calla Strom: and others just dont act as they did when they thought i was really white
[2008/05/20 19:18] Salamander Clary: I don't think that's understandable at all.
[2008/05/20 19:18] Edward Bournemouth: I didn't think that was possible... call me naive
[2008/05/20 19:18] You: I did lose some sl friends when they found out I'm not really female in rl.
[2008/05/20 19:18] Franja Russell: It doesn't make sense to me to want to only be with cookie-cutter versions of myself.
[2008/05/20 19:18] Calla Strom: Yes, its sad but... its true
[2008/05/20 19:18] You: and there are some people who won't talk to me because my av is not the same as my rl gender.
[2008/05/20 19:19] You: so I understand.
[2008/05/20 19:19] Dessa Lane: What, you are not female!
[2008/05/20 19:19] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hee!
[2008/05/20 19:19] Skye Lewellen: it happens in RL so it happens in SL *sigh*
[2008/05/20 19:19] Dessa Lane: lololol, just kidding
[2008/05/20 19:19] Calla Strom: now i am going as Japanese, soon hehe
[2008/05/20 19:19] You: the way I see it...
[2008/05/20 19:19] You: it is a good way to know who my real friends are.
[2008/05/20 19:19] You: if people are going to dislike me over something as stupid as an avatar.
[2008/05/20 19:19] Salamander Clary: Grizzy - somehow that seems different to me, it took me a while to reconcile the gender difference and I found out when I met you.
[2008/05/20 19:19] Roberrt Magne: :) Please permit me to clarify, Salamandar. We fought a bloody war between 1861 and 1865. and 100 years later, in 1965, we passed our third Civil Rights act.
[2008/05/20 19:19] Caoilin Galthie: good point grizzy
[2008/05/20 19:19] Edward Bournemouth: come to my set next Monday Calla... I'll play "Turning Japanese" for ya :)
[2008/05/20 19:20] You: ok, Franja's turn... then maybe one more
[2008/05/20 19:20] Salamander Clary: I'm not saying that I don't understand that prejudice exists and so on.
[2008/05/20 19:20] Lovie Markova: could it be that people relate to you in one way and then when u change it makes them uncomfortable.....
[2008/05/20 19:20] You: then if we have time we'll go back.
[2008/05/20 19:20] Salamander Clary: But I don't understand why race matters HERE.
[2008/05/20 19:20] Rew Weatherwax: I agree Lovie
[2008/05/20 19:20] Skye Lewellen: it happens from all sides - it's hard to go past our fears and what we're comfortable with
[2008/05/20 19:20] Lovie Markova: ruins the mystic
[2008/05/20 19:20] Franja Russell: First I should tell you that I was born in, raised in, worked in, and am retired in a multi-cultural city.
[2008/05/20 19:20] TommyJW Ninetails: that is the great this about sl - is it streatches us..
[2008/05/20 19:21] Calla Strom: But if they liked me as i was... for my attuid then they should not treat me any diffrent once they know my real race
[2008/05/20 19:21] Edward Bournemouth: Salamander, believe it or not, some people on SL have very little imagination and can't understand why you wouldn't make your avie look like you look in RL
[2008/05/20 19:21] Franja Russell: When I was growing up, I thought everywhere was like that. Sadly, it isn't.
[2008/05/20 19:21] Skye Lewellen: no they shouldn't at all
[2008/05/20 19:21] Roberrt Magne: :) Prejudice, which is rooted in fear and ignorance, Salamandar, exists everywhere. Including on the web.
[2008/05/20 19:21] You: I think looking like I do in rl, in sl is boring.
[2008/05/20 19:21] Edward Bournemouth: I know - I've met some of those people... sad looking avies, a lot of them
[2008/05/20 19:21] Roberrt Magne: which is sad.
[2008/05/20 19:21] Salamander Clary: Franja - I don't understand that, I guess. I spend most of my time here with a black avatar and I'm white.
[2008/05/20 19:22] Franja Russell: Ok....I have very limited time in SL this week and will be away on the weekend. So the fastest change I could make was to chunk-up my av. I could wear clothes I already have, etc.
[2008/05/20 19:22] Trinity Coulter: i know someone who is a white male in RL and is a black avie here
[2008/05/20 19:22] Skye Lewellen: i found that I never even noticed the difference in how i was treated until there was a change:(
[2008/05/20 19:22] Trinity Coulter: black female avie, i mean
[2008/05/20 19:22] Rew Weatherwax: But there are two types of people in sl - those who thinks its dishonest to portray yourself as different then you really are and those who feel you should be as free as you like to be whatever..
[2008/05/20 19:22] Franja Russell: So I chose to make her heavier. The only thing I still might do is make her taller. The av I've been using in SL is already 7 inches taller than I am in real life.
[2008/05/20 19:22] Edward Bournemouth: Rew that's very true... some people believe that if you're bald in RL you should be bald in SL
[2008/05/20 19:22] Lludmila Mirrikh thinks the way people react to other avs in SL boils down to sex, which is something she's heard of, but knows nothing about.
[2008/05/20 19:23] Lovie Markova: not many black avies in sl i was glad to see a heavy set black gal the other day
[2008/05/20 19:23] EricLeGeek Grauman: In SL you should let your creativity get the best of you and use it to mold your AV!!!! lol
[2008/05/20 19:23] Rew Weatherwax: people judge you by what they think - if you portray yourself as diff than you are and then 'reveal' the real you ..those types think you were lying
[2008/05/20 19:23] Roberrt Magne is a boring old fart in real life, and a boring old fart in Second Life. I guess it balances itself out.
[2008/05/20 19:23] Edward Bournemouth: LOL Robert!
[2008/05/20 19:23] Calla Strom: You should have seen the reaction when a "fat" female steped into a club i work at... the way people talked about her was horrible
[2008/05/20 19:23] Rew Weatherwax: if you portray yourself without imagination..the other type thinks you are boring
[2008/05/20 19:23] Franja Russell: I love variety. The best years of my Teaching life were when my students spoke between 9 and 11 different home languages. It was glorious!
[2008/05/20 19:24] You: one more person... and then we need to discuss Thursday...
[2008/05/20 19:24] Salamander Clary: I'll go?
[2008/05/20 19:26] Salamander Clary: I didn't do all that much with my avatar, but she is - like I said - usually black, and also usually has a pretty average figure.
[2008/05/20 19:26] Salamander Clary: I mean, average in RL terms, not SL terms.
[2008/05/20 19:27] Salamander Clary: I haven't walked around much with a white avatar since I joined, so I changed that and made her a lot curvier. I know that's fairly normal for SL, but it's not for me and also quite different from what I look like in RL.
[2008/05/20 19:27] Roberrt Magne: If I may interject, I think one must accept the fact that Second life is essentially an open-ended game. And, if one chooses to misrepresent, on must accept the consequence.
[2008/05/20 19:27] Serene Vella: But is changing characters "misrepresenting?"
[2008/05/20 19:28] Roberrt Magne: If I may, Vengeane, use you for an example/
[2008/05/20 19:28] Sophia Tulip: i think there may be a little truth in our "misrepresentation"
[2008/05/20 19:28] You: I am not going to pretend to practice Islam... I am going to act as I normally do.. I will just look different.
[2008/05/20 19:29] Salamander Clary: Maybe it depends on what you mean by "truth", Sophia.
[2008/05/20 19:29] Edward Bournemouth: I agree with Griz on this one... when I'm my female avie, I'm myself, just with another shape
[2008/05/20 19:29] Roberrt Magne: Another thing is one's choice of activity. I listen mainly to ilive venue music, so i could come in as a horse, and no one would care.
[2008/05/20 19:29] Arundel Dragonash sees no reason to be whot one is in both RL and SL, except that she can't keep more than one story stright
[2008/05/20 19:29] You: Yeah, when you talk to Grizzy, you are talking to the real me.. Grizzy just is less hairy and has less testosterone and wears dresses.
[2008/05/20 19:29] You: Grizzy is also a bit more outgoing than I am in rl.[2008/05/20 19:30] Franja Russell: In real life we dress differently for different occasions. Maybe someone in SL is trying to see if he/she would like himself/herself dressing in a different style
[2008/05/20 19:30] Gonzo Mandelbrot: I have an alt that has my RL name and appearance
[2008/05/20 19:30] Serene Vella: Yes, that's true
[2008/05/20 19:30] You: yeah, exactly... I wanted to see what it was like if I was a girl.
[2008/05/20 19:30] You: so I put on a girl avatar for sl.
[2008/05/20 19:30] Salamander Clary: I definitely dress differently here than I do in RL.
[2008/05/20 19:30] Roberrt Magne: My rl first name is the same as my Second Life name.
[2008/05/20 19:30] Salamander Clary: I don't really care about clothes all that much.
[2008/05/20 19:30] Gonzo Mandelbrot: I use that av for business, so being the RL me is appropriate in that context
[2008/05/20 19:30] Salamander Clary: In real life, that is.
[2008/05/20 19:31] Franja Russell: I wouldn't be able to carry it off if I made my av a guy.
[2008/05/20 19:31] You: I definitely don't dress like I do in sl. (:
[2008/05/20 19:31] You: and I know you are all relieved.
[2008/05/20 19:31] Calla Strom: Yea, can pretty much look at me and tell i dress diffrent in RL
[2008/05/20 19:31] Skye Lewellen: lol I cahnge my avs constantly
[2008/05/20 19:31] Skye Lewellen: *change
[2008/05/20 19:31] You: so let's put this on hold for a bit
[2008/05/20 19:31] You: and we will get back to it if we have time
[2008/05/20 19:31] You: because there is something important we need to discuss.
[2008/05/20 19:31] Edward Bournemouth: Thursday!
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: I think that for this to work, we need to get outside of the places we normally go...
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: and I know that I am very busy in sl
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: and I rarely have time to go to new places
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: I also know I am a bit squeamish about going out looking like this..
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: so I thought what we would do on Thursday is go on a field trip..
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: we would meet here at 6:30
[2008/05/20 19:32] You: and then around 6:40 or so
[2008/05/20 19:33] Salamander Clary: Oh, shoot, I can't go. I have RL plans.
[2008/05/20 19:33] You: we would head out and go to 2 or 3 different places as in these avatars.

After much discussion:

[2008/05/20 19:44] You: So I think we will meet here at 6:30 slt...
[2008/05/20 19:44] You: then head to Ahern Welcome area at 6:40slt
[2008/05/20 19:44] You: then head to Blarney at 7:10slt
[2008/05/20 19:45] You: and then to Yadni's at 7:40slt.
[2008/05/20 19:45] You: does that sound good?
[[2008/05/20 19:48] You: and also if you want to head out in small groups on your own and do the same thing..
[2008/05/20 19:48] You: then feel free.
[2008/05/20 19:49] Lludmila Mirrikh: I'm reluctant to go out alone anymore.
[2008/05/20 19:49] Skye Lewellen: i am hungry... only have 3 liters
[2008/05/20 19:49] You: well, Llud, IM me and if I'm not busy I'll go out with you.

Blogging this week.

2008-05-19T22:16:55Z

The things that you can do and the experiences you can have in Second Life are limitless. One of the things I think is interesting about SL is how we can literally look like almost anything. The reason I chose an avatar of the opposite gender from my rl gender is purely because it would be an interesting experience and something I couldn't do in reality. I have learned a lot about ways in which women are treated differently and about myself by doing this.
This week at Grizzy's Cafe, I have asked all who would like to participate to change their avatar's race and/or gender (some people are doing weight as well). We are going to be discussing the experience at the club throughout the week. I will be saving the chat logs and putting them here on live journal. I will also attempt to blog about each day as it goes by, if I can. If anyone would like to participate and needs info please let me know.

Tolerance in a virtual world

2007-10-27T01:46:00Z

This may eventually become a discussion topic at Grizzy's Cafe, but for the time being I am going to post something here. What got me thinking about this is some flack I've been getting by speaking out against some things that go on in SL and also this post from jenshikami. Tolerance is an important thing in both rl and in sl, but sometimes I think that people may not have an accurate idea of what tolerance actually is. I am posting what I personally think it is (feel free to add to or disagree with) as it relates to SL.

WHAT TOLERANCE IS:
1) Freedom from being judged solely for belonging to a certain demographic or group: In RL or SL, this could be race, religion, sexual preferance etc. In SL, it could also be a group you belong to in your profile or the avatar you use etc. For example in the second_lifers, LJ community I mentioned several times that I was a Christian. What resulted was that every opinion I ever offered that was unpopular with the majority got filtered through that. This lead to personal attacks and people claiming that since I am Christian I must believe (a), (b), and (c), when usually (a), (b), and (c) were things that I thought were ridiculous or downright hateful.

2) Freedom to do your thing without being harassed: If someone griefs a sim just because it is a gay sim, this is intolerant. When an atheist came to my sl Bible study not to have an intelligent conversation about our differences (which I would have welcomed) but to try and "cure" us all of Christianity this was also intolerant. When I am asked on certain Christian sims (by the extreme, extreme minority) why I am sinning by using a female avatar when I male in rl this is also intolerant. You should not be unduly harassed when you are just going about your own business.

3) Respect for others who may believe differently than you do: For example one of my particularly vocal detractors on LJ referred to God as "Yahweh or Yeehaw or whatever he calls himself these days" and also referred to Song of Solomon as "that sexy book that makes me want to get my groove on." Belittling someone else's beliefs or claiming that person is stupid, etc. etc. is the height of intolerance. If you can't disagree with someone without being insulting you are intolerant.
Another element of this, is if you know you are going to be in area where someone may be made extremely uncomfortable by something you are doing, refrain from doing it until you are somewhere amongst like minded people, for example no ball gags or nudity at the SL botanical gardens. No going into the Blarney Stone and preaching that people are going to hell for hanging out in a bar.

This to me is what tolerance is. Where people get tolerance wrong usually is in what it IS NOT. So here is what I think tolerance is NOT:

1) People seem to think that parts 1 and 2 of my definition of tolerance mean that no one should ever under any circumstances criticize something they do. Sometimes people take the fact that you say I don't like that you are doing (a), as I don't like you because you are (b). For example when Seven told someone to put clothes on in his arcade and the person jumped all over him. Just because you are doing something that isn't mainstream, doesn't mean we all have to watch or approve.

2) Some people think that part 3 of my definition of tolerance means they should never have to see anything they disagree with. They are basically for the irradication of anything they don't like. This could be said for atheists who want to rid the world of every public reference to religion because they don't believe in God, or someone who wanted SL to be family friendly and was seeking to censor all non family friendly parts of SL.
Having common decency to respect each other and refraining from ever saying or doing something someone else may not like in public are 2 different things. If we were to restrain ourselves to that degree, everything in the world be too bland to deal with. This is not what tolerance is. Tolerance is the inclusion of all ideas in their proper place.

...and the last misconception of tolerance as I see it is the idea that all things are to be tolerated. Once something gets to the point where it can hurt another person (physically or psychologically) especially to an extreme degree, it is no longer to be tolerated. I know in SL no one can be physically hurt. However media has power to persuade the mind, books have that power. Movies and television have that power. Radio has that power. Virtual worlds I would argue would have that power even more because it is something someone actively participates in.

Some of what is characterized in sl as "harmless fetishes" are scenarios that are played out in which women and children are treated horribly and dehumanized. For examples of what I mean, I suggest looking at these two links:

http://slleftunity.blogspot.com/2007/08/whats-harm.html
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2007/08/whats-the-harm.html

One may argue that all participants are willing participants, but this doesn't change the fact that this behavior is celebrating the mistreatment of other human beings and THAT I do NOT tolerate.

So after over a month of laying low from livejournal and carefully think this through. This is what I define as tolerance. Please feel free to discuss, but not flame. (:

Race and gender discussion in Grizzy's Cafe

2007-06-29T03:19:51Z

The race and gender discussion at Grizzy's Cafe was a tremendous success and extremely interesting. Here is a transcript

"You" of course is me!

[18:21] ::: ED ::: Female AO (Wear Me) say, 2476 bytes free
[18:21] Roberto Salomon is Online
[18:21] Silent Watts is Online
[18:21] Renukun Hax is Online
[18:21] You: back
[18:22] Weez Papp: 1 sec, i'll be back, i think i signed in wrong account :) i cancelled this, 1 sec
[18:22] You: Hi Roberto
[18:22] You: cool avatar. (:
[18:22] Roberto Salomon: Hello Grizzy
[18:22] You: very different from your usual attire too. (:
[18:22] You: your'e kinda scary looking.
[18:23] Roberto Salomon: Well, that is the idea
[18:23] Roberto Salomon: See how people react
[18:23] You: yep
[18:23] You: I am starting to miss my old av though.
[18:23] Roberto Salomon: I can't verry well change gender with my name
[18:23] You: that's true..you'd have to do an alt.
[18:23] Roberto Salomon: I hav e a female Alt
[18:24] You: oh well, you can talk about that too if you want...
[18:24] You: I forgot about that.
[18:24] You: you were talking about that on Sunday.
[18:24] Roberto Salomon: I will
[18:24] Roberto Salomon: And a Black male alt
[18:24] You: I'm planning on taking a transcript of tonight.
[18:24] Roberto Salomon: And a female Furry Alt
[18:24] You: wow
[18:24] You: I thought about making an alt that looks like the rl me..
[18:24] You: but I have the feeling that he'd rarely get used.
[18:25] Roberto Salomon: LOL
[18:25] Roberto Salomon: Well, onece I found the regular Roberto AV, I have not returned to the real life Robert
[18:25] You: I tried being rl me in sl for a few days... and then went back to Grizzy.
[18:26] You: I was under this account though.
[18:26] You: if I did it again, I'd put more effort into trying to make it look like me.
[18:26] You: and get a name as close to my real name as possible.
[18:26] You: The hardest part was finding sl clothes that would be clothes I'd wear in rl.
[18:26] Roberto Salomon: Ahhh, so the name would be important as well....
[18:27] Roberto Salomon: Well, What you usually see my AV wear is what I wear in RL
[18:27] Roberto Salomon: That is important to me
[18:27] You: I'm pretty casual in rl.
[18:27] Roberto Salomon: Hello Franja
[18:27] You: not like my sl persona
[18:27] You: HI granja
[18:27] You: Franja
[18:28] Franja Russell: Hi Grizzy, Roberto, and Fetherfoot.
[18:28] You: hi feather..
[18:28] You: didn't see you come in.
[18:28] featherfoot Fadoodle: hihi all
[18:28] featherfoot Fadoodle: cause im little
[18:28] Roberto Salomon: Hey there feather
[18:28] featherfoot Fadoodle: hihi Roberto
[18:28] You: Hi Lludmilla
[18:28] Franja Russell: This is about as much of a change as I had time to make.
[18:28] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hello, all!
[18:28] Franja Russell: Hello Ludmila.
[18:28] featherfoot Fadoodle: hihi lubmila
[18:28] You: hi gary
[18:29] Gary Curie: hello
[18:29] featherfoot Fadoodle: didnt really have time to go looking on that list of skins you posted
[18:29] Jebediah Spatula is Online
[18:29] Roberto Salomon: Hello Gary
[18:29] Franja Russell: All I had time to do was use the Appearance=> Skin sliders.
[18:29] Smiles Tomsen is Offline
[18:29] You: I just posted names of freebie places where it would be easy to get skins or hair..
[18:29] You: and clothes if you were changing gender.
[18:29] featherfoot Fadoodle: ya
[18:30] featherfoot Fadoodle: i have both genders
[18:30] GoSpeed Racer is Online
[18:30] featherfoot Fadoodle: so both clothes, just not the skin
[18:30] Franja Russell: I have the landmarks. Thanks Grizzy. Just have not had time.
[18:30] featherfoot Fadoodle: i was gonna come kid anyway tho
[18:30] You: that's ok
[18:30] You: It is interesting to see what everyone is doing. (:
[18:30] You: I must say though... I'll be glad to get back into my normal av.
[18:31] featherfoot Fadoodle: y?
[18:31] You: I've been like this for an entire week now.
[18:31] featherfoot Fadoodle: you dont like it?
[18:31] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah, I can barely take the pressure.
[18:31] You: I like it but I miss my old look
[18:31] You: because it seems more like "me" since I've spent the most time in sl as that
[18:31] featherfoot Fadoodle: hmm i change my looks like i change my cltohes
[18:31] featherfoot Fadoodle: *clothes
[18:31] Franja Russell: Featherfoot, doesn't that confuse you sometimes?
[18:32] Lludmila Mirrikh: Nice entrance!
[18:32] Drangea Lyndhurst is Offline
[18:32] featherfoot Fadoodle: no, not really
[18:32] You: Hi Boomer
[18:32] featherfoot Fadoodle: maybe others, but i always have my name on
[18:32] You: Hi Go, Hi Kara.
[18:32] Kara Timtam: Yo, Giizz
[18:32] Franja Russell: Ahhh...
[18:32] Roberto Salomon: Hello Kara
[18:32] Boomer Rich: hihi
[18:32] Blundergroin Snoats is Offline
[18:32] You: Hi Sira
[18:32] Roberto Salomon: Hey there Go
[18:32] You: I can normally recognize all the regulars by avatar...
[18:32] You: but not tonight.
[18:32] GoSpeed Racer: hey there
[18:33] featherfoot Fadoodle: and people who know me expect me to look differnt all the time
[18:33] Kara Timtam: Hi! Yeah, you have not met The Main Man efore babycakes
[18:33] Sira Asylum: Ahoy hoy!
[18:33] Roberto Salomon: Hi there Sira
[18:33] You: thought you'd come as Johnny Depp, Sira. (:
[18:33] Kara Timtam: Every woman has an inner man... it turns out, my inner man is an awful horndog. Who knew?
[18:33] Sira Asylum: Well, he's my only dude avatar ;-)
[18:33] Sira Asylum: Not much to report, I'm afraid
[18:33] Sira Asylum: As a guy I am ignored, even as The Hottest Guy Ever
[18:33] Lludmila Mirrikh: Duuuude!
[18:33] Jebediah Spatula is Offline
[18:34] You: guys are normally ignored..
[18:34] You: that's normal..
[18:34] Gary Curie: lazy females...
[18:34] Sira Asylum: phone
[18:34] Franja Russell: But, that's not true Grizzy.
[18:34] GoSpeed Racer: lol, try going from white to black.... the hit on ratio drops too
[18:34] You: I enjoy getting extra attention in sl... except for the creepy kind.
[18:34] Roberto Salomon: Well, guys are ignored till they take the time to make friends
[18:34] You: wow, come to think of it Go... I haven't been hit on much this week at all.
[18:34] Blundergroin Snoats is Online
[18:34] Lludmila Mirrikh: Me, I get to ask people out, to dance - I get a better return.
[18:34] You: Hi Tarintino
[18:34] Tarintino Beck: hey grizzy
[18:35] Sira Asylum: back
[18:35] Kara Timtam: Lobo just keeps asking until he gets somewhere. Or just steals the girl.
[18:35] Sira Asylum: It kind of made me wonder if I tend to ignore guys on SL
[18:35] Boomer Rich: it's the purple dress grizz
[18:35] Sira Asylum: I kind of do, but usually it's cause I don't want to get hit on...
[18:35] Roberto Salomon: BRB, AFK for a min
[18:35] featherfoot Fadoodle: i wear my guy for that reasn, so i dont get hit on
[18:35] Sira Asylum: I'm more open to talking to strange SL guys if I'm in a Christian joint
[18:35] You: Hi Ananda
[18:36] Sira Asylum: Granted, I didn't have an amazing amount of time to spend on SL this last week.
[18:36] Ananda Sandgrain: hello
[18:36] Sira Asylum: I will continue the experiment on my own fo' sho'
[18:36] Kara Timtam: I don't get hit on in my small mousy girl avie. Guys want skinny supermodels with a misproportionate rack.
[18:36] Lludmila Mirrikh: I go around most of the time as a little white granny. Not many hits there.
[18:36] Sira Asylum: Yeah, I think weight shoudl have been part of the experiment
[18:36] Gary Curie: what is a typical "hit-on" conversation like ?
[18:36] Kara Timtam: Granny, that's cool!
[18:36] Smiles Tomsen is Online
[18:36] Ananda Sandgrain: I saw this on the LJ, so I thought I'd stop by
[18:36] Sira Asylum: "Hey, baby"
[18:36] Sira Asylum: "I like your hair. Wanna do it?"
[18:36] featherfoot Fadoodle: i need to get a really good dark skin, but im really looking for a good asian skin
[18:36] Kara Timtam: Usually unsolocited IM "hi"
[18:37] featherfoot Fadoodle: LOL thats it exactly
[18:37] Sira Asylum: Those too
[18:37] Gary Curie: "hi" is a hit-on ?
[18:37] Sira Asylum: In SL
[18:37] Kara Timtam: OHo, some friens of mine just started a skin store, let me find the landmark, they have NICE asian girl skins
[18:37] Sira Asylum: I'd like that Asian landmark too
[18:37] featherfoot Fadoodle: cool
[18:37] You: I must admit I didn't find much difference when I changed race..
[18:37] featherfoot Fadoodle: thanks!
[18:37] Franja Russell: I was just glad to be able to get a tan.
[18:37] You: I was treated pretty much thes ame.
[18:38] Sira Asylum: I don't think race exists on SL....
[18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: I got in two arguments in one day.
[18:38] Gary Curie: ... and women in SL are powerless to resist the charm of "hi" ?!
[18:38] Sira Asylum: Thanks ,Kara
[18:38] Kara Timtam: apparently
[18:38] Sira Asylum: There are so many tanned girls on SL...
[18:38] You: My normal clothes didn't look good on my black avatar...
[18:38] Sira Asylum: arguments?
[18:38] featherfoot Fadoodle: does the asian skin look ok on a reg body, or would i have to get a asian body too, you think?
[18:38] You: but that was about it.
[18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: Political!
[18:38] Kara Timtam: If I answer, then there's more than Hi
[18:38] Sira Asylum: hahaha
[18:38] featherfoot Fadoodle: i tend to go pale for my "normal" avvie
[18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: I never usually even DISCUSS politics!
[18:38] Sira Asylum: Political because of your avatar?
[18:38] Lludmila Mirrikh: But my avvie took over!
[18:38] Gary Curie: politics is fun
[18:39] You: I almost never discuss politics in sl.
[18:39] Sira Asylum: I think I'm strangely shyer as Johnny
[18:39] Sira Asylum: I try not to, Grizzy
[18:39] Sira Asylum: They irritate me
[18:39] Franja Russell: I know many, many Asian people. At least half are as light skinned as I am in real life, but they can get a tan and all I get is freckles and a sunburn.
[18:39] Kara Timtam: What, about clothes on black skin? It changes the whole color balance of the ensemble, that's all
[18:39] You: wow, sira... you are shyer as Johnny... and I'm more outgoing as a girl.
[18:39] Gary Curie: i avoid discussing excretory bodily functions
[18:39] You: much more outgoing.
[18:39] Lludmila Mirrikh: No sh*t!
[18:39] GoSpeed Racer: YAY! (yay!)
[18:39] Sira Asylum: I don't know why I'm shyer...
[18:39] Kara Timtam: Wow Boomer, that's a real change of race.
[18:39] Sira Asylum: I think I'm really a girla t heart
[18:39] Sira Asylum: *a girl at heart
[18:40] You: I don't know why I'm more outgoing..
[18:40] Boomer Rich: as a robot i get hit on a lot
[18:40] Boomer Rich: mainly by toasters
[18:40] Kara Timtam: LOL
[18:40] You: I think it may be just because I'm not inhibited by looking like the rl me.
[18:40] Ananda Sandgrain: :)
[18:40] Boomer Rich: and the occasional jukebox
[18:40] Sira Asylum: It might be because girls are talked to more
[18:40] You: Hi manada
[18:40] You: maybe so, Sira
[18:40] You: never thought of that.
[18:40] Amanda11 Lytton: hello Grizzly, hi all
[18:40] Roberto Salomon: BK
[18:40] Sira Asylum: I kind of feel like I'm breaking into conversations as Johnny
[18:40] GoSpeed Racer: watch out for those jukeboxes, they are not into family planning
[18:40] Sira Asylum: I feel that way offline too
[18:40] Roberto Salomon: Hello Miss Lyton
[18:40] Sira Asylum: So I'm more my offline self when I'm Johnny!
[18:41] You: I'm also obsess over my appearance in sl and don't at all in rl.
[18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: And toasters don't use protection.
[18:41] Sira Asylum: I don't on either, haha
[18:41] Boomer Rich: it's ok as long as they use a beer bottle for protection
[18:41] Kara Timtam: I hear they are ac/dc
[18:41] Sira Asylum: I mean, I know this cape doesn't go with my tux
[18:41] GoSpeed Racer: I hear they shoot blanks
[18:41] Sira Asylum: And I don't care
[18:41] You: It takes me a long time to figure out what to wear in sl...
[18:41] Kara Timtam: Nothing wrong with a cape and a tux. Worked for Dr. Who back in the day
[18:41] Lludmila Mirrikh: I hear they cost too much bread.
[18:41] You: so if I ever get married, I guess I'll have no right to criticize my wife if she's like that.
[18:41] Sira Asylum: I've never seen Dr Who....
[18:42] Sira Asylum: That's right, Grizz
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: !!!!!
[18:42] Boomer Rich: when they get argray boy are they burnt
[18:42] Franja Russell: I liked Dr. Who, especially Tom Baker and John Pertwee.
[18:42] You: hello Oinion
[18:42] Sira Asylum: Cause Ten is REALLY hot
[18:42] Sira Asylum: I'm planning on seeing the latest incarnation with 9 and 10
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Baker, def.
[18:42] Amanda11 Lytton: aarrghh i'll kill that cat!
[18:42] Kara Timtam: Ah well this was #3, back in the 70's.
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Tom, not Colin.
[18:42] Sira Asylum: Even Steve doesn't attack me as much when I'm Johnny!
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Showin' yer age!
[18:42] Kara Timtam: I'm afraid so
[18:42] Franja Russell: Tom Baker had the best sense of humor as a Dr. Who.
[18:42] Sira Asylum: If I like 9 & 10 I'll see the originals too
[18:42] Jenny Seibert is Offline
[18:42] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh.
[18:42] Kara Timtam: In SL, you only have as much grey hair as you want
[18:43] Lludmila Mirrikh: In SL I HAVE more grey hair.
[18:43] Franja Russell: That's sure different from real life!
[18:43] featherfoot Fadoodle: in SL i have blue hair if i want it
[18:43] Kara Timtam: Not really. That's where my hairdresser comes in
[18:43] Kara Timtam: Yes, this hair color is mine. I paied for it, it's mine.
[18:43] You: You know in sl you get judged for your appearance just like rl...
[18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: Yeah.
[18:44] Sira Asylum: this avatar has a huge head...
[18:44] You: but while its still wrong, I think its a little bit more fair
[18:44] You: since you ahve completely control over it.
[18:44] Franja Russell: Well, that's the problem of the judgers, not mine.
[18:44] You: its not quite as bad as in rl..
[18:44] Kara Timtam: Doesn't that stink? It's not like you can't be as pretty as you want to be
[18:44] Lludmila Mirrikh: That's why I'm a little old lady.
[18:44] You: yeah, I get judged for using a female av as a male
[18:44] Kara Timtam: I am attracted to Interesting avatars. The one I followed around was a monkey in a tutu.
[18:44] You: I am a member of a lot of Christian groups in sl..
[18:44] Roberto Salomon: Try being a cat as well
[18:45] You: and there is always one person that says I'm sinning because I"m crossdressing.
[18:45] Gary Curie: Christian Slater has a group ?
[18:45] You: but that just lets me know that person is an idiot
[18:45] Sira Asylum: That makes me sad, Grizzy
[18:45] Lludmila Mirrikh: Well, you're open about being male.
[18:45] Sira Asylum: lol
[18:45] Boomer Rich: Is crosdressing a sin ?
[18:45] Sira Asylum: I say it's not
[18:45] Kara Timtam: Is cross-avatarring a sin?
[18:45] Sira Asylum: Girls wear pants all the time
[18:45] You: It really depends on who you talk to..
[18:45] You: and how they interpret the bible
[18:45] GoSpeed Racer: it's an avatar, not a real body
[18:45] Boomer Rich: I asking anyone here ?
[18:45] You: the only place it expressly says so is in the old testament
[18:45] Agamemnon Wuyts: hello
[18:45] Franja Russell: Grizzy, there'll always be someone who finds something bad in just about anything anybody does.
[18:45] Boomer Rich: I mean in RL ?
[18:46] Sira Asylum: well, you could also say "Why not cyber hump with children? They are avatars, not real bodies"
[18:46] Kara Timtam: Hey baby, wanna meet the Main Man...?
[18:46] Sira Asylum: But I would still have a problem with THAT
[18:46] You: which also says that wearing mixed blended fabrics is a sin
[18:46] You: Hi Agamemnon welcome
[18:46] Amanda11 Lytton: also in the new testament it says its a sin and gods wreth shall come down on thee
[18:46] Boomer Rich: lol and polester is a mortal sin
[18:46] Sira Asylum: Yeah, you have to take the Old Testiment laws in context
[18:46] Kara Timtam: The Old Testament ha things to say about eating pork.
[18:46] Boomer Rich: where in the New testament ?
[18:46] Sira Asylum: What was God telling the Jewish people at that time, and how might it apply today?
[18:46] Kara Timtam: Eat a pig, go to hell? Um, I think not
[18:46] You: yes, I agree that's my point.
[18:47] Sira Asylum: I like pretending to be smart ;-)
[18:47] Boomer Rich: wear a dress abd goto pergatory ?
[18:47] Amanda11 Lytton: Boomer in the words of homer simpson "oh, somewhere in the back" (when asked by bart if telling white lies isnt a sin)
[18:47] Sira Asylum: hahaha
[18:47] Kara Timtam: lol amanda
[18:47] Sira Asylum: I love that show...so much....
[18:47] Gary Curie: me two, I lick preetending I am shmart
[18:47] Sira Asylum: "I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, SAVE ME SUPERMAN!"
[18:47] Kara Timtam: Scots in Kilts are out of luck, aren't they?
[18:47] Amanda11 Lytton: =) sorry i didnt mean to hurt anybodys feelings about the bible
[18:47] Sira Asylum: Oh totally damned, are those Scots
[18:47] Lludmila Mirrikh: Oh, I love a man in a dress.
[18:47] Kara Timtam: LOL... Sira, you don't know my usual avatar doyou?
[18:47] Sira Asylum: I don't think anyone's hurt...
[18:47] Kara Timtam: Supergirl
[18:47] Jenny Seibert is Online
[18:48] Sira Asylum: Oh yeah, lol!
[18:48] Gary Curie: easier if you take the dress off first
[18:48] Lludmila Mirrikh: Sloooowly.
[18:48] Sira Asylum: I do like being tall
[18:48] Ananda Sandgrain: Interesting, in 4 years I've never had anyone inworld accuse me of sin
[18:48] Amanda11 Lytton: if more men wore dresses, public bathrooms might be alot cleaner....
[18:48] Sira Asylum: and I feel like James Bond in this tux
[18:48] Sira Asylum: ...how would that work, Amanda?
[18:48] Franja Russell: But so many cultures that developed cloth wrapped themselves in it whether they were male or female. I can't see anything sinister in clothing, well not most clothing anyway.
[18:48] Sira Asylum: I think they would still foul up the place
[18:48] Sira Asylum: Yeah, Jesus wore a dress!
[18:48] Kara Timtam: Maybe we need to start you a baccarat game Sira
[18:48] You: Hi Jenny
[18:49] Sira Asylum: probably not, since I've never seen a full Bond movie ;-)
[18:49] Kara Timtam: Jesus wore normal clothes for the time and place. Meh.
[18:49] Jenny Seibert: Hi everybody!
[18:49] Amanda11 Lytton: hi Jenny
[18:49] Roberto Salomon: Hello Jenny
[18:49] Sira Asylum: maybe someday "dresses" will be normal for guys today
[18:49] You: yeah, I think that people who are getting on my case about my avatar being a sin really need to lighten up...
[18:49] Ananda Sandgrain: bathrooms might be cleaner if they were unisex... I doubt men wearing dresses would matter :)
[18:49] Sira Asylum: Seriously lighten up...
[18:49] You: and they really don't get sl if that's an issue.
[18:49] Sira Asylum: Nah, they would still be dirty
[18:49] Kara Timtam: You see the occasional Utilikilt. My guy friends who have them love it!
[18:49] Sira Asylum: at my school the public women's bathrooms are hideous
[18:50] You: I mean thats like me getting onto Roberto because he's not really a cat.
[18:50] Sira Asylum: lol exactly
[18:50] Roberto Salomon: Exactly
[18:50] GoSpeed Racer: Hey, Grizz, here is an appropriate song :)
[18:50] Kara Timtam: Roberto isn't really a cat!?
[18:50] Sira Asylum: I mean, if you were scamming on people and trying to trick them, that would be a problem
[18:50] featherfoot Fadoodle: ya i get really mixed results when i wear my guy
[18:50] You: lol
[18:50] Sira Asylum: But the problem would be the trickery
[18:50] Amanda11 Lytton: not the purring?
[18:50] featherfoot Fadoodle: most are the "oh youre into gender bending"
[18:50] Sira Asylum: The thing is, lots of people are using voice now
[18:50] Ananda Sandgrain: ah the old issue...
[18:50] Sira Asylum: I feel weird using a guy avatar with my girlish voice
[18:50] Kara Timtam: There are voice changers
[18:50] Sira Asylum: (even though I'm told it's low *blink blink*)
[18:51] You: My voice changer works really well.
[18:51] Padishar Frobozz is Online
[18:51] Franja Russell: When they use Voice, does anything print on the screen or in the Chat History?
[18:51] You: you can hear me next week when they enable voice here.
[18:51] Sira Asylum: For me personally, I would feel that changing my voice would be lying. I personally wouldn't sit right with it
[18:51] Sira Asylum: No, Franja
[18:51] featherfoot Fadoodle: i already decided im not using voice
[18:51] Kara Timtam: I would definitely need one for this avie. Lobo ain't no boy soprano!
[18:51] GoSpeed Racer: depends on who you ask Grizz, some people say they can tell
[18:51] Sira Asylum: I like voice sometimes
[18:51] Amanda11 Lytton: next week already? =)
[18:51] Gary Curie: can I get a Woody Allen voice imitator ?
[18:51] Sira Asylum: I'm gonna be at a convention all weekend...
[18:52] Sira Asylum: Not dressing up, alas
[18:52] You: I don't really care if they can tell...
[18:52] Gary Curie: maybe Groucho Marx...
[18:52] Franja Russell: I clicked on a link that showed those gizmos with ear pieces and a small microphone. They're expensive!
[18:52] Kara Timtam: I guess you could. Light tenor, the accent and hesitations are your problem
[18:52] You: as long as my voice fits the avatar.
[18:52] featherfoot Fadoodle: if i do use voice i want one that sounds like the peole who have a hole in their throat
[18:52] Sira Asylum: I want to hear YOUR voice, not a fake :-p
[18:52] You: and it does..
[18:52] Sira Asylum: "fit the avatar" be darned :-p
[18:52] Boomer Rich: wahhhh wahhhh wahhh
[18:52] Sira Asylum: ooooh someone just handed me french fries...
[18:52] You: well, TOO BAD!!! (:
[18:52] Sira Asylum: *wails like a girl*
[18:52] GoSpeed Racer: mmmmmmm, French Fries
[18:52] Sira Asylum: that's not very ladylike, Grizzy
[18:53] Ananda Sandgrain: sira what would you say to someone if their RL voice *never* matched their real inner voice?
[18:53] You: I may say a sentence in my normal voice just to appease you..(:
[18:53] Twill Juniper is Offline
[18:53] Grizzy's Money tip jar v5.0: Franja Russell has tip you $20L
[18:53] Sira Asylum: Their inner voice? What do you mean?
[18:53] You: thanks for the tip Franja
[18:53] Sira Asylum: How you imagine yourself as sounding?
[18:53] Sira Asylum: I don't sound how I imagine myself
[18:53] Sira Asylum: one reason I don't use voice much...
[18:53] Ananda Sandgrain: exactly
[18:53] Franja Russell: YW, Grizzy.
[18:53] Ariel Miranda is Online
[18:53] Kara Timtam: Me neither. I try to pitch it down when I think about it.
[18:53] Sira Asylum: Mostly I'm just razzing Grizzy ;-)
[18:53] Sira Asylum: I don't care how people want to sound, it's their business
[18:53] Ananda Sandgrain: I never do sound like I imagine myself to
[18:53] You: btw, tips go to live music here... if you are interested.
[18:53] Sira Asylum: I prefer "real" voices, but *shrugs*
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <72.36261, 240.89264, 108.43472>
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <72.21412, 240.29762, 108.44283>
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <72.67564, 240.41534, 108.44540>
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <73.91218, 240.72400, 108.43941>
[18:54] Sira Asylum: I think I sound like a dork
[18:54] Kara Timtam: mmm that's right, where is the tip jar?
[18:54] Boomer Rich Flaps his wings Idly
[18:54] Sira Asylum: people tell me my voice is "low"
[18:54] Industria Dowler is Online
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <70.08838, 239.54668, 108.44019>
[18:54] Franja Russell: Whenever I've heard my voice on a tape, it always sounds higher than it seeme inside my head when I'm speaking.
[18:54] Steve say, Setting center position to: <69.47421, 239.08443, 108.44145>
[18:54] You: under the flickr thing
[18:54] Sira Asylum: so then I speak higher cause I'm self-conscious
[18:54] IceBreakerZ: Weez Repine: SL: Complete this sentence. Of the people I've met in SL, most seem to be ____.
[18:54] You: in front of the Carole King and Mary Tyler moore posters
[18:54] Sira Asylum: Most people seem to be hitting on me as a girl and ignoring me as a boy
[18:54] Boomer Rich: Least I have chicken.
[18:54] You: that's the same with me, Sira.
[18:55] Boomer Rich: Linden Time!!! Linden Time!!! OMG It's Linden Time!!!
[18:55] You: I'm also much more vain as a girl.
[18:55] Sira Asylum: I though Johnny Depp would get attention!
[18:55] GoSpeed Racer: YAY! (yay!)
[18:55] Grizzy's Money tip jar v5.0: Kara Timtam has tip you $100L
[18:55] You: thanks Kara
[18:55] Sira Asylum: What I SHOULD have done is dress up like Jack Sparrow
[18:55] Kara Timtam: I'm particularly fond of Keltish
[18:55] Sira Asylum: when I get back from Anime Expo I'll try that...
[18:55] You: yes, you would be, Kara
[18:55] Grizzy's Money tip jar v5.0: Roberto Salomon has tip you $200L
[18:55] You: thanks roberto
[18:55] Sira Asylum: Keltish? Is that that one band?
[18:56] Kara Timtam: So, how is it going a Gimli's kid sister, Jenny?
[18:56] You: yeah... www.keltish.com
[18:56] Kara Timtam: Keltish is a band, yes, my friend is the drummer
[18:56] Sira Asylum: I heard them at the Blarney Stone, I think
[18:56] Sira Asylum: Almost positive, actually
[18:56] Sira Asylum: I liked them, but I came in at the very end of the show :-(
[18:56] You: So I also found that I've looked like this so long in sl... that I am uncomfortable being male in sl..
[18:56] You: becuase its what I'm used to here and other people are used to it too.
[18:56] Boomer Rich: I'M INVINCIBLE!!!
[18:56] GoSpeed Racer: Now, many of you know me as a black woman. I've been black only the last 3 months. Before that I was white.....
[18:56] You: Hi Indy.
[18:56] Industria Dowler: Hey everybody!
[18:56] featherfoot Fadoodle: there is one girl i see at dublin who has a chunky girl form
[18:56] Sira Asylum: maybe I'm uncomfortable looking liek a male for the same reason
[18:56] Boomer Rich: I'M INVINCIBLE!!!
[18:56] GoSpeed Racer: Anyone care to see my white skin?
[18:57] Kara Timtam: Sure Go!
[18:57] Sira Asylum: Sure!
[18:57] Roberto Salomon: I feel the same way about being human in SL Grizzy
[18:57] Industria Dowler: I've seen your white skin, hehe!
[18:57] featherfoot Fadoodle: she gets some strange comments sometimes
[18:57] Industria Dowler: O_o
[18:57] Endymion Rimbaud is Online
[18:57] Industria Dowler: Did I miss the conversation?
[18:57] You: Friends of mine actually even seemed disturbed the couple of days I was a man in sl..
[18:57] GoSpeed Racer: oh, and I had green eyes too :)
[18:57] featherfoot Fadoodle: just because she isnt miserably skinny like everyone else
[18:57] You: they were not used to it and could relate to me better when I am a woman
[18:57] Boomer Rich: I saw a squirrel......
[18:57] You: Hi Crystal.. nice name.
[18:58] Boomer Rich: it was doing like this!
[18:58] Boomer Rich: I saw a squirrel......
[18:58] Boomer Rich: it was doing like this!
[18:58] Crystal Ball: :-) thanks
[18:58] Kara Timtam: I have an avatar that I made to be a close to my real self as possible.
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I've known some people who change avatars all the time
[18:58] Sira Asylum: so I'm kind of used to people looking different
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I mean, I change a LOT
[18:58] Sira Asylum: probably cause I rarely change offline
[18:58] Kara Timtam: Fenix from Keltish inspired that... a bit chunky but cute
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I didn't cut my hair for years...
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I'm going to dye it black soon, HUGE deal for me
[18:58] Franja Russell: Kira, mine usually is close to my real self...except taller, a bit thinner.
[18:58] Franja Russell: Oh, and better hair.
[18:58] You: I had an av like that for a while...
[18:58] Sira Asylum: My avatar is much skinnier than I am offline
[18:58] You: I actually found it kind of dull to look just like I do in rl.
[18:58] Sira Asylum: I need to make a fat chick avatar
[18:59] Sira Asylum: I mean, I'm full of fat pride offline
[18:59] You: I thought.. that's not what sl is for.
[18:59] Ananda Sandgrain: oh I know, once people know you as the same av for a long time it's much harder to change
[18:59] Boomer Rich: Good !
[18:59] Boomer Rich: Good !
[18:59] Grizzy Griswold puts on her fat chick avatar.
[18:59] featherfoot Fadoodle: i look like i think i should look in my head
[18:59] Sira Asylum: Niiiice hips, Grizzy!
[18:59] Sira Asylum: I bet they don't lie
[18:59] Kara Timtam: Fat chick avatar just gets you insults ... wrong but true
[18:59] Lludmila Mirrikh: Nice look, Grizzy!
[18:59] Industria Dowler: :o
[18:59] Sira Asylum: Yeah, they assume that you don't know what you're doing and you made yourself fat by mistake
[18:59] Sira Asylum: It's sick
[19:00] Boomer Rich: I DIDN'T DO IT
[19:00] You: actually my regular avatar is kind of just what I find attractive in the opposite sex.
[19:00] Kara Timtam: OK, I knocked off about 50 pounds admittedly
[19:00] Franja Russell: But why would someone "see" him or herself more than we do in real life? Our brains are behind our eyes. We're seeing others unless we spend a LOT of time in the bathroom. It's the same here in SL.
[19:00] Boomer Rich: Oh Lord bless this thy handgrenade
[19:00] Boomer Rich: but with it thou mayst blow thy enemies to tiny bits
[19:00] Boomer Rich: in thy mercy
[19:00] You: I like redheads so I have red hair in sl.
[19:00] Sira Asylum: I'm learning to see myself as fat
[19:00] Sira Asylum: I like red-heads too
[19:00] Sira Asylum: But Johnny looks bad as a red-head
[19:00] You: I dress in clothes that I like to see women wear in rl.
[19:00] Industria Dowler: I like brunettes.
[19:00] Kara Timtam: Going through your sounds folder, Boomer?
[19:00] Sira Asylum: If I were a guy I would go head over heels for red heads
[19:00] featherfoot Fadoodle: i want blue hair in RL so i tend to have a lot, plus a lot of red hair
[19:01] Boomer Rich: I like smurfs
[19:01] Boomer Rich: oh did i say that out loud ?
[19:01] Lludmila Mirrikh: I married a redhead.
[19:01] Industria Dowler: I like Smurfs, too.
[19:01] featherfoot Fadoodle: im still looking for a good looking blue skin
[19:01] You: though I don't dress in anything too revealing because that tends to encourage lecherous guys.
[19:01] Sira Asylum: I'd like to marry a red head
[19:01] Boomer Rich: slow roasted ?
[19:01] featherfoot Fadoodle: i have a glittery blue, but looks totaly fake
[19:01] GoSpeed Racer: I think SinSkins has some
[19:01] Sira Asylum: I wear revealing clothes on SL cause I am way too shy to do so offline
[19:01] Kara Timtam: How about this blue?
[19:01] Twill Juniper is Online
[19:01] Sira Asylum: online letches can't hurt me
[19:01] Franja Russell: I would love to be a real redhead. Tried it once. It went pink as the weeks went on and I washed my hair.
[19:01] Sira Asylum: I want to try to be a red head
[19:02] Sira Asylum: but the red heads in my family would think I was just trying to be them *sigh*
[19:02] Ananda Sandgrain: I've known too many redheads to fall head over heels *again* :)
[19:02] Sira Asylum: So I'll get a really wild red shade
[19:02] Kara Timtam: OK, I'm late for my 7 pm meeting, gotta go! this has been interesting, let'd do it again
[19:02] Michelle Thurston is Online
[19:02] Franja Russell: Sira, why would they think that?
[19:02] Lludmila Mirrikh: I've been through many reds. Love 'em.
[19:02] Sira Asylum: Bye, Kara!
[19:02] You: ok, thanks for coming Kara...
[19:02] You: see you later
[19:02] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bye, Kara.
[19:02] Sira Asylum: They kind of have their Red Head status as a pride thing
[19:02] Sira Asylum: cause red heads are rare, you know?
[19:02] Edward Coronet is Online
[19:02] Sira Asylum: It would be good natured teasing, but I don't like being teased at all
[19:02] Franja Russell: There have been several in my real life family.
[19:03] Industria Dowler: Brunettes...
[19:03] Industria Dowler salivates.
[19:03] Sira Asylum: I'm a brunette
[19:03] Industria Dowler salivates.
[19:03] Sira Asylum: light, though
[19:03] featherfoot Fadoodle: ive been mostly a red head of one type or another since i was 19
[19:03] Sira Asylum: lucky
[19:03] Sira Asylum: ;-)
[19:03] Sira Asylum: I'm too scared to dye my hair...
[19:03] Boomer Rich: Sieg Heil!
[19:03] Sira Asylum: Gonna go buy some Manic Panic
[19:03] You: I find that anytime I change avatars to something that is very different than an avatar I've used befor.. it changes the experience a lot.
[19:03] featherfoot Fadoodle: currently i have been slowly going blonde
[19:03] Industria Dowler: WFT?!
[19:03] Industria Dowler: Delete that Hitler sound.
[19:03] You: the first time I was a tiny, it was a very strange experiences.
[19:03] Sira Asylum: Really, Grizz?
[19:03] Industria Dowler: Yeah. D:
[19:04] Sira Asylum: That is interesting
[19:04] Boomer Rich: oops gott delet that one
[19:04] You: I went to the Blarney Stone...
[19:04] Sira Asylum: I'm used to changing all the time
[19:04] featherfoot Fadoodle: i find being a tiny a difficult experience unless in a group of tinies
[19:04] Sira Asylum: so it doesn't happen to me
[19:04] You: and all the women were fawning all over me.
[19:04] Franja Russell: In real life I started to get grey hair when I was 11. The Attack of the Galloping Greys came between 25 and 27. I've had mostly white hair since I was 30.
[19:04] Brielle Coronet is Offline
[19:04] Sira Asylum: Yeah, I wouldnb't want to be a tiny by myself
[19:04] Lludmila Mirrikh: I love white hair, too.
[19:04] featherfoot Fadoodle: just...difficult
[19:04] Sira Asylum: So like Steve Martin and Taylor Hicks?
[19:04] Sira Asylum: I just bought a white wig
[19:04] Industria Dowler: I have really dark hair and I had to bleach it so I could have blue hair.
[19:04] Sira Asylum: I'm gonna dress up as an anime character in July
[19:05] Industria Dowler: Which one?
[19:05] You: I have a beard in rl.
[19:05] Sira Asylum: Integra Hellsing
[19:05] Sira Asylum: SIR Integra Hellsing
[19:05] featherfoot Fadoodle has white hair
[19:05] You: Hi Edward
[19:05] Industria Dowler: I haven't seen that anime.
[19:05] Sira Asylum: I would like to be Sephiroth, of course
[19:05] Edward Coronet: hi, griz
[19:05] Sira Asylum: But I don't have the costuming skills
[19:05] Sira Asylum: I might be a white-haired elf
[19:05] You: Hi Bloodsong
[19:05] GoSpeed Racer: I am green with envy :-P
[19:05] Sira Asylum: I just got Lord of the Rings jewelry in the mail...
[19:05] Franja Russell: Sira, I'd like to see that.
[19:05] Industria Dowler: hehe, it doesn't look too bad.
[19:05] Bloodsong Termagant: heyas, grizzy, all. sorry im late.
[19:05] Sira Asylum: White-haired Sira?
[19:05] Industria Dowler: In that Herman Munster kind of way.
[19:05] featherfoot Fadoodle: Go, i like that skin
[19:06] You: We have somehow going off topic into hair and anime.
[19:06] Sira Asylum: If it turned out I'll definitly take pictures
[19:06] GoSpeed Racer: it was a Freebie I found at MIA
[19:06] Sira Asylum: I can turn any conversation into hair and anime
[19:06] Bloodsong Termagant: heehe!
[19:06] featherfoot Fadoodle: cool
[19:06] Sira Asylum: It's my special gift
[19:06] Sira Asylum: Dangerous at funerals
[19:06] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh!
[19:06] Roberto Salomon: Well folks, just got a call. Hope to be back in a bit
[19:06] Sira Asylum: see you, Roberto
[19:06] GoSpeed Racer: it appears to be a caramel skin tinted green
[19:06] You: ok, see you later Roberto.
[19:06] Edward Coronet: bye roberto
[19:06] Industria Dowler: Doesn't look that bad.
[19:06] You: Was anyone else like me and started missing their normal avatar?
[19:06] Sira Asylum: Now I want to go buy manic panic dye right now, but I don't have a ride *sigh*
[19:06] Sira Asylum: Sira doesn't drive
[19:06] Sira Asylum: Yes, I did, Grizzy
[19:07] Sira Asylum: as "normal" as I am, anyway
[19:07] You: I didn't get tired of looking like this until a couple of days ago... but I've been like this for a week.
[19:07] Sira Asylum: I don't feel pretty as Johnny
[19:07] Lludmila Mirrikh: I have to admit I cheated and went back to my normal av.
[19:07] You: and I can't wait to get my red hair and blue eyes back
[19:07] Industria Dowler: Yeah, luckily I had a spare skin.
[19:07] Bloodsong Termagant: i change avatar looks often, so i don't really miss any. or get attached to any, much.
[19:07] Sira Asylum: I like looking at Johnny offline
[19:07] Samantha Poindexter is Online
[19:07] featherfoot Fadoodle: blue hair and red eyes?
[19:07] Sira Asylum: But I don't want to look like him online for long periods of time
[19:07] Crystal Bling Dance Ball: Touched.
[19:08] Twill Juniper is Offline
[19:08] Edward Coronet: ah, steve
[19:08] Sira Asylum: I enjoy being a girl
[19:08] Franja Russell: I may leave the skin like this for a while. It's the only way I'll ever have a tan. I'm glad you had this event Grizzy. I gave up so long ago on the idea of ever having a tan that I never thought of trying it in SL.
[19:08] Sira Asylum: even with all the hit-ons
[19:08] You: yeah, I think part of it is the fact that I've never gone so long outside of my normal avatar....
[19:08] You: I normally only wear a strange or different avatar for a day or so at a time..
[19:08] Sira Asylum: I only do for a few hours at a time
[19:08] Samantha Poindexter is Offline
[19:08] Ananda Sandgrain: have you tried making one that resembles your RL body?
[19:08] You: so this prolonged change has been kind of a shock to the system.
[19:08] You: yes I did...
[19:08] Sira Asylum: I found myself not wanting to get on SL at all!
[19:09] You: that was when as I said, people found it odd for me to suddenly be a man in sl.
[19:09] Sira Asylum: (though part of that was I'm missing Mako)
[19:09] GoSpeed Racer: Hey Grizz, this is the skin you first met me in
[19:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: I started out trying to look like me.
[19:09] Sira Asylum: I did too, Llud
[19:09] You: plus I fouind it really kind of boring looking like rl me..
[19:09] Bloodsong Termagant: yeah, on the first day i started trying to approximate me... i gave that up real quick!
[19:09] You: just because I can do that all I want in rl.
[19:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: I found it scary.
[19:09] You: Yeah, I remember that Go.
[19:09] Edward Coronet: i liked it when you had your rl av in your first life page
[19:09] Sira Asylum: I got tired of people trying to "help me" get a skinny avatar
[19:09] Boomer Rich is Offline
[19:09] Ananda Sandgrain: I found it very depressing
[19:09] Plato Cochrane is Offline
[19:09] Lludmila Mirrikh: And I wasn't very successful making friends looking like myself.
[19:10] You: why depressing Ananda?
[19:10] Industria Dowler: That's crappy, Sira.
[19:10] Sira Asylum: I liked it when you had your RL avatar in your FL profile too, Grizz
[19:10] Sira Asylum: Weightists annoy the heck out of me
[19:10] You: I might put that back.
[19:10] Plato Cochrane is Online
[19:10] Sira Asylum: it's nice that race doesn't seem to be as big a deal on SL
[19:10] Ananda Sandgrain: It became a question of why be exactly what I always *have* to
[19:10] Sira Asylum: But weight might be an even bigger deal
[19:10] Sira Asylum: People just don't understand why anyone would look fat if they don't have to
[19:10] You: yeah, that was the same for me Ananda...
[19:10] Industria Dowler: Yeah, nobody said anything to me. The only people who thought it was odd were the people who knew me.
[19:10] Ananda Sandgrain: When I can be what I want to
[19:10] You: in sl I can change shape and appearance at will
[19:11] You: why would I do something I've already experienced.
[19:11] Ananda Sandgrain: exactly
[19:11] Crystal Bling Dance Ball: Touched.
[19:11] featherfoot Fadoodle: ok i gotta get
[19:11] You: in the beginning I didn't tell anyone that I am a man in rl..
[19:11] Industria Dowler: My regular avi tends to look like RL me except I shaved off a few pounds. ;)
[19:11] You: bye feather
[19:11] featherfoot Fadoodle: bybye all
[19:11] Sira Asylum: Experiancing something online isn't the same as experiancing it offline
[19:11] Sira Asylum: bye feather
[19:11] You: and some people got really angry when I told them..
[19:11] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bye Feather.
[19:11] Franja Russell: Me too. Thanks Grizzy. This was fun. Good luck everybody.
[19:11] You: and wanted me to try using a male av..
[19:11] Sira Asylum: that's a bummer, Grizz
[19:11] You: see you Franja.
[19:12] Drangea Lyndhurst is Online
[19:12] You: and that's why I made the av that looks like rl me..
[19:12] Sira Asylum: I think it's good to tell people in your profile
[19:12] Lludmila Mirrikh: Bye Franja.
[19:12] Ananda Sandgrain: they actually told you to?
[19:12] Terry Tuck is Online
[19:12] You: because any male av I made that didn't look like me actually felt like a character I was pretending to be instead of me..
[19:12] GoSpeed Racer: YAY! (yay!)
[19:12] Ananda Sandgrain: I've broken a few "hearts" along the way...
[19:12] You: I could think of this av as me as a girl..
[19:12] Lludmila Mirrikh: Pixelated hearts.
[19:12] Sira Asylum: Anne Rice says that Lestat is her ideal male self
[19:12] You: but all the male avs if they didn't look like me felt like I was playing a part
[19:13] Industria Dowler: Hmm...that's interesting.
[19:13] Ananda Sandgrain: but anyone who knew me for a while got really disturbed if I showed up in a male av
[19:13] Sira Asylum: when I write characters that are like me, they are always males
[19:13] Sira Asylum: I can't write female characters to be like me on purpose
[19:13] You: They didn't say I had to have a male av but strongly suggested it and pestered me about it.
[19:13] Sira Asylum: it's interesting to me...
[19:13] Ananda Sandgrain: interesting
[19:13] You: one of the people who wanted me to use a male av was also one of the people that was weirded out by it when I tried it.
[19:13] Bloodsong Termagant: people with gender hangups kinda annoy me. so i annoy them back by being ambiguous.
[19:13] You: since she was used to me being a girl
[19:13] Sira Asylum: But that is in stories. In poems and songs I find it hard to write as a guy!
[19:13] Sira Asylum: lol
[19:14] Sira Asylum: some peolple just can't make up their minds, eh, Griz?
[19:14] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe
[19:14] Lludmila Mirrikh: Shouldn't have to.
[19:14] You: well, I have been told by many sl friends that my personality and sense of humor is very male..
[19:14] You: especially Lina...
[19:14] GoSpeed Racer: Would you all be terribly surprised if I said I was a guy in RL?
[19:14] Edward Coronet: lol, true
[19:14] Ananda Sandgrain: Sira do you suppose there's a male living on the other side of your brain?
[19:14] Sira Asylum: I've given up on guessing gender on SL
[19:14] Sira Asylum: I wouldn't be surprised, Ananda
[19:14] Rissa Maidstone is Online
[19:14] Industria Dowler: I'm horrible at telling that at first. I usually see people as they are projecting.
[19:14] Lludmila Mirrikh: I found that this week I had to suppress saying "Oooooo!' and giggling.
[19:15] You: I met a girl on Orientation Island my first day
[19:15] Sira Asylum: But I tried to write a song about Vertigo and couldn't manage it....
[19:15] You: and we stayed friends all through sl
[19:15] Sira Asylum: cause it was from the guy's POV
[19:15] You: and I only found out that she was also a guy in rl in the last few months.
[19:15] Bloodsong Termagant: what i think is weird... i would wear the female version of my black cat avatar (so i could wear dresses.... i dont wear dresses myself, you see)... and the people at the club i hang out in all thought i was a guy anyway.
[19:15] Sira Asylum: maybe I could write a song as Madeliene better...
[19:15] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh!
[19:15] Sira Asylum: Wow, Grizzy, that is kind of amazing
[19:15] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe
[19:16] You: I did actually think she might be a lesbian..
[19:16] Sira Asylum: I've probably told this story before
[19:16] You: but never suspected she was a guy.
[19:16] Sira Asylum: But I once posted on a message board with someone I knew offline (she didn't know it was me posting, but I thought she did)
[19:16] Ananda Sandgrain: Have you found that guys play as girls a *lot* more than the other way around?
[19:16] You: yeah
[19:16] You: I'm not sure why..
[19:16] Sira Asylum: And offline she said "Hey, I met this really cool guy online! His name is Silvertongue!"
[19:16] Industria Dowler: I think so, too.
[19:16] Sira Asylum: and that was my name....
[19:16] Smiles Tomsen is Offline
[19:16] Renukun Hax is Offline
[19:16] Industria Dowler: Probably because women are more asthetic.
[19:16] Sira Asylum: *blinks blinks*
[19:17] Industria Dowler: or because there' smore stuff for them to wear.
[19:17] Edward Coronet: because women can be more guy like in rl without anyone thinking anything about it
[19:17] Dexter Tones is Offline
[19:17] GoSpeed Racer: nicer to look at :)
[19:17] Ananda Sandgrain: I wonder that too... what are the cultural forces that lead to that
[19:17] Bloodsong Termagant: lol, sira :)
[19:17] Sira Asylum: I think you've hit on something, Edward
[19:17] Edward Coronet: and men generally can't
[19:17] You: I think thats right...
[19:17] Ananda Sandgrain: I'd agree with that
[19:17] Lludmila Mirrikh: It's a matter of power and loss of power.
[19:17] Sira Asylum: Girls are encouraged to be "guy-like" offline
[19:17] Industria Dowler: That's a good point.
[19:17] Rissa Maidstone is Offline
[19:17] Sira Asylum: guys are forbidden to
[19:17] Renukun Hax is Online
[19:17] You: if a man is girlish he is accused of being gay or a wimp etc
[19:17] Sira Asylum: I would imagine that is a reason why there are so many homosexual guys involved in "female" activities
[19:17] Lludmila Mirrikh: Loss of status.
[19:18] Sira Asylum: some of them might be closet straights ;-)
[19:18] You: but a girl can act like a guy and just be a "tom boy"
[19:18] Bloodsong Termagant: yes, that's very true. a good point.
[19:18] Ananda Sandgrain: Not only that but most guys have to be more "guy-like" than they actually might be
[19:18] Sira Asylum: I like being a girl...There is a LOT of freedom
[19:18] Industria Dowler: I'm a tom boy.
[19:18] Sira Asylum: Yeah, poor guys :-(
[19:18] Industria Dowler: When I was little I used to think there was the term tom girl, too.
[19:18] Lludmila Mirrikh: And two women can live together and people just think they couldn't get a man.
[19:18] GoSpeed Racer: man that Rav has a froggy voice
[19:18] Alan Edelman: Hey all.
[19:18] Sira Asylum: I'm going to a convention tomorrow, and I'm positive there will be lots of girls dressed as male characters
[19:18] Lludmila Mirrikh: Hello Alan.
[19:19] You: Hi Alan
[19:19] Sira Asylum: But guys dressed as women? Of course not! Not unless they are gay (or...)
[19:19] Industria Dowler: Which convention?
[19:19] Alan Edelman: Um, well, not exactly.
[19:19] Ananda Sandgrain: I came here from a group of my friends...
[19:19] Sira Asylum: Anime Expo
[19:19] Alan Edelman: Guess again?
[19:19] Industria Dowler: Some of my friends have been there and said it was a lot of fun. :)
[19:19] Sira Asylum: My brother is dressing up as Roxas from Kingdom Hearts II :-D
[19:19] Ananda Sandgrain: and was thinking that while I knew the rl gender balance was roughly equal...
[19:19] Sira Asylum: I've never been, I'm so excited!
[19:20] Ananda Sandgrain: there was actually just one male av and 7 female :p
[19:20] Sira Asylum: lol
[19:20] Industria Dowler: I'm going to a sci-fi con the next weekend, hehe!
[19:20] Edward Coronet: which one indi?
[19:20] Sira Asylum: when I was a kid there were lots of "How do we get girls to be more active online?" articles and studies
[19:20] Industria Dowler: CONvergence.
[19:20] Stormy Westmoreland is Online
[19:20] You: I also find that in sl I relate to women better and make friends with women more easily.
[19:20] Sira Asylum: Now there are more girls online than there are guys (I'd bet)
[19:20] Michelle Thurston is Offline
[19:20] You: and when that is the exact opposite of rl.
[19:20] Industria Dowler: At least in cames like this.
[19:20] Lludmila Mirrikh: Women are more verbal - they chat better.
[19:20] Sira Asylum: I get along pretty well with both genders (which is pretty badly, but at least it's equal!)
[19:20] Industria Dowler: There are probably more guys playing WoW.
[19:21] Industria Dowler: Games, not cames.
[19:21] Sira Asylum: Yeah, probably
[19:21] Edward Coronet: cookie kapper plays wow
[19:21] You: WoW doesn't interest me very much..
[19:21] Sira Asylum: She does? Cool!
[19:21] Sira Asylum: I go through WoW spurts
[19:21] You: if I want to play a traditional video game I'd rather play one by myself...
[19:21] Ananda Sandgrain: the latest stats said 3/4 male in SL
[19:21] Industria Dowler: It didn't interest me until I started playing, heh.
[19:21] You: like doom or something.
[19:21] Edward Coronet: with her grandkids, too, she monitors them
[19:21] GoSpeed Racer: My friendslist between this AV and my Male one are very similar.... My lady friends treat me different when I am GoSpeed, and they admit it
[19:21] Industria Dowler: I play with friends so that helps.
[19:21] Edward Coronet: apparently the other grandma does too
[19:21] Ananda Sandgrain: but females spent far longer online
[19:21] Sira Asylum: I play with my cousins
[19:21] Sira Asylum: otherwise it's not that interesting
[19:22] Sira Asylum: mostly I play cause my brother and I share an account and we like to get our money's worth
[19:22] You: I think I still get treated like a woman most of the time despite people knowing....
[19:22] Sira Asylum: So I listen to music and beat stuff up *shrugs*
[19:22] Ananda Sandgrain: I'm sure Grizzy
[19:22] You: I do really HATE it when people call me "he" in sl though.
[19:22] You: which happens on occasion.
[19:22] Sira Asylum: ...I'll keep that in mind
[19:22] Samantha Poindexter is Online
[19:22] Ananda Sandgrain: I think about how this compares to RL...
[19:22] GoSpeed Racer: yes sir
[19:22] Sira Asylum: How do you like to be called, Grizzy?
[19:22] GoSpeed Racer: :P
[19:22] Sira Asylum: Ma'am? Her Excellency?
[19:22] Bloodsong Termagant: grizzy is kinda a male name, though.
[19:22] Ananda Sandgrain: I chat a lot with women I know...
[19:22] You: well I don't want to be called "she" in rl.
[19:22] Sira Asylum: M'lady Grizzelda?
[19:22] Alan Edelman: This chat is amazing... I can't even keep up.
[19:22] Industria Dowler: Her majesty, hehe!
[19:22] Sira Asylum: "It"?
[19:22] You: so it would follow that I don't want to be calle "he" in sl
[19:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: Makes ones head spin!
[19:23] Ananda Sandgrain: but any women I don't know see me as a threat first...
[19:23] Sira Asylum: I wouldn't mind if peopel called me "He" offline. I would think it's funny
[19:23] Ananda Sandgrain: at least that's how it seems
[19:23] GoSpeed Racer: Twiddler THerian uses the term "Shim"
[19:23] Sira Asylum: Cause I am very obviously a girl
[19:23] Sira Asylum: Someone I know offline says "Shim" too
[19:23] Sira Asylum: I say "they", but my teachers made me stop
[19:23] Industria Dowler: I got called a he when I was a child. D:
[19:23] Sira Asylum: People thought my brother was a girl
[19:23] Sira Asylum: cause he has curly hair
[19:23] Lludmila Mirrikh: I was often mistaken for a boy when I was young.
[19:23] GoSpeed Racer: we should of invited Twiddler
[19:24] GoSpeed Racer: he makes the Taunt hair line
[19:24] Sira Asylum: any special reaosn why?
[19:24] GoSpeed Racer: and has a female AV
[19:24] Crystal Bling Dance Ball: Touched.
[19:24] Alan Edelman: Hey Grizzy, who's who here that's not themselves?
[19:24] Lludmila Mirrikh: Is there a Witching Hour where we all change back?
[19:24] Sira Asylum: "themselves"?
[19:24] Evelyn Edelman is Online
[19:24] You: Lina is Edward
[19:24] Sira Asylum: do you mean "Who is wearing an avatar that isn't their usual"?
[19:25] Alan Edelman: OK,
[19:25] Alan Edelman: Hi EdLina
[19:25] You: INdy is usually a little Asian girl.
[19:25] Edward Coronet: hullo
[19:25] You: Jenny is usually not a dwarf. (:
[19:25] Lucy Basiat is Online
[19:25] Sira Asylum: Cause I'm not usually Johnny Depp
[19:25] Sira Asylum: Jenny is so cute! Like a pixie!
[19:25] You: Lludmila is usually a granny. (:
[19:25] Jenny Seibert: lol
[19:25] Lludmila Mirrikh: Heh!
[19:25] You: Sira is usually a girl.
[19:25] Jenny Seibert: I had to change back sorry!
[19:25] Grizzy's Money tip jar v5.0: GoSpeed Racer has tip you $20L
[19:25] Bloodsong Termagant: you're johnny depp? i thought you were a demon cat.
[19:25] You: thanks Go
[19:25] Bloodsong Termagant: was that you or someone else?
[19:26] Sira Asylum: Sira does not look like a demon cat?
[19:26] You: and Bloodsong is usually a tiny I believe
[19:26] Alan Edelman: OK, Who's Ananda? I don't recognize you!
[19:26] Bloodsong Termagant: heh, no actually, im not.
[19:26] You: Yeah, I just now met Ananda
[19:26] Ananda Sandgrain: This is my first time here :)
[19:26] You: sorry Blood...
[19:26] Ananda Sandgrain: And I'm myself
[19:26] You: I think tiny night is when I remember you coming..
[19:26] Bloodsong Termagant: s'okay, everybody thinks wildly different things about me. it's funny :)
[19:26] Ananda Sandgrain: no one else has been using this av :)
[19:26] You: and your title says "forever tiny" so assumed. ):
[19:26] GoSpeed Racer: OK Grizz, I did not pick this song
[19:26] Alan Edelman: Oh, what a crazy time to show! Hopefully you'll come back when we're more 'ourselves' - lol
[19:26] You: lol, Go
[19:27] Bloodsong Termagant: here, i'll put on the avatar i usually use.
[19:27] Lludmila Mirrikh: Okay, you show me yours, I"ll show you mine.
[19:27] Ananda Sandgrain: I was attracted by this event - I'm always fascinated to hear people's gender experiences
[19:27] Industria Dowler: Forever tiny...until NOW!
[19:27] Alan Edelman: Hey GoSpeed, did you see the article in the paper this week about the offer to have small operators pay about what they're paying now?
[19:27] You: I rememberd the name but couldn't put a face with it.
[19:27] Sira Asylum: Ok, I'm going femme again
[19:27] GoSpeed Racer: royalty rates?
[19:27] Bloodsong Termagant: i know, ive only been here three times. as a tiny monster, and as a black unicorn, then today.
[19:28] Sira Asylum: Johnny just looks too silly dancing like this
[19:28] Alan Edelman: Well on the 15th, the new royalties kick in...
[19:28] Sira Asylum: Or I could be a bearded lady!
[19:28] You: I plan on turning back to regular Grizzy before the night is over..
[19:28] GoSpeed Racer: maybe, maybe not... I am playing it by ear
[19:28] Bloodsong Termagant: yes, normally im 7'9" tall.
[19:28] GoSpeed Racer: it depends on how things fall out
[19:28] Industria Dowler: Damn, that's tall.
[19:29] Lludmila Mirrikh: There, this is more festive.
[19:29] You: a good way to see what people normally look like is to look at their profile.
[19:29] Alan Edelman: But the California senator covering Hollywood got the royalty clearinghouse group to say the little folks could keep paying what they're paying now.
[19:29] Alan Edelman: Without the increase.
[19:29] Bloodsong Termagant: or this version, which i think has more prims, so i dont use it when building or teaching.
[19:29] Ananda Sandgrain: maybe, Grizzy
[19:29] Alan Edelman: The $500/yr per channel is still up in the air though.
[19:29] Sira Asylum: so the internet radio thing is gonna be OK?
[19:29] Ananda Sandgrain: I find most profiles are out of date
[19:29] GoSpeed Racer: I certainly hope so. I am part of a co-op... that's how I can afford it
[19:29] Alan Edelman: (I knew that... lol)
[19:29] Sira Asylum: That whole thing has made me mad....
[19:29] You: I keep my profile very up to date.
[19:30] Lludmila Mirrikh: Thanks for the invitation, Miz Grizz! I have to get to bed!
[19:30] Industria Dowler: I often forget to change some things.
[19:30] Bloodsong Termagant: now somewhere around here, i have a female version of this body shape. i kept trying to make androgynous figures, but it just doesn't work.
[19:30] You: but the only thing I change is clothes and hair style.
[19:30] You: ok, thanks for coming Lludmila
[19:30] Ananda Sandgrain: And you'd find on mine I'm what.. a tree? a geisha dog? :)
[19:30] Evelyn Edelman is Offline
[19:30] Crystal Bling Dance Ball: Touched.
[19:30] Lludmila Mirrikh: G'night all! Don't do anything I wouldn't do!
[19:30] Sira Asylum: Night, Llud
[19:30] GoSpeed Racer: gnite granny
[19:30] Edward Coronet: night, lludmila
[19:30] Industria Dowler: Should we all transform back into ourselves at the stroke of griznight?
[19:30] Edward Coronet: lol
[19:31] Alan Edelman: That would be harder for me...
[19:31] Sira Asylum: I'm transforming now
[19:31] You: so is now the stroke of Grizznight?
[19:31] Sira Asylum: it must be!
[19:31] You: ok here goes
[19:31] Industria Dowler listens and leans to the left.
[19:31] Sira Asylum: I miss wearing a dress!
[19:31] Edward Coronet: ah, then i must relog
[19:31] Edward Coronet: brb
[19:31] GoSpeed Racer: I'm already back... I made my change 3 months ago :)
[19:31] Bloodsong Termagant: there. but with the female version, i lose 3" off my height.
[19:31] Edward Coronet is Offline
[19:32] Alan Edelman: Hmm - isn't anybody going to ask me where my wife is?
[19:32] Alan Edelman: Guess she's not as popular as she thinks...
[19:32] You: lol
[19:32] Thos Mauriac is Offline
[19:32] You: shannon is logged on as her husband.
[19:32] Jenny Seibert: Alan, where is your wife?
[19:32] You: wow, I didn't realize how small you are Indy until just now.
[19:32] Alan Edelman: Right here, actually. That's my switch. Using an actual avatar from somebody else who has a real SL.
[19:32] Ananda Sandgrain: :)
[19:32] Sira Asylum: Ahhhhhh all is right with the world
[19:33] Blundergroin Snoats is Offline
[19:33] Alan Edelman: God, this guy has absolutely NOTHING to wear!
[19:33] Lina Olaria is Online
[19:33] Ananda Sandgrain: I wondered if that's what you meant by "not yourself"
[19:33] Sira Asylum: you look very flamboyant, Alan
[19:33] GoSpeed Racer: sigh, such a same Grizz, you made a lovely 'sistah"
[19:33] Industria Dowler: This tux makes my butt look fat.
[19:33] You: thanksfully this outfit looks ok on the real me..
[19:33] Alan Edelman: The only thing other than suits I could find was the midevil costume.
[19:33] Franja Russell is Offline
[19:33] Sira Asylum: I feeel sooooo prettyyyyy
[19:33] You: when I turned African American the clothes I had on before looked awful.
[19:34] You: nice dress Sira
[19:34] Ananda Sandgrain: for a *very* surreal experience, next I recommend trying to control the same av together :)
[19:34] Alan Edelman: I went out and around in this avi, when he wasn't using it, and when I wasn't at the convention.
[19:34] Sira Asylum: thanks ,Grizz
[19:34] Sira Asylum: I got it from that 10L store

and back to normal...felt good to be back to my old self

Grizzy's cafe

2007-04-04T00:45:07Z

Please visit my new club, Grizzy's Cafe. It has sort of a retro 50's, 60's, and 70's theme. To get a better idea of what it will look like, click here

and here is a slurl:

slurl.com/secondlife/Varsity/58/245/108/

It should be up in search>places soon but is not yet. Please keep in mind that I'm on a PG sim.